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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#99251: Mar 24th 2019 at 7:07:36 PM

Yeah, this is one of the limitations of the MCU being a series of movies, as opposed to an actual television show (something Patrick H. Willem's talks about in his "The Limitations of the Marvel Cinematic Universe" videos): every movie needs to be a big event, but the real character development is often during scenes where people are just sitting around and talking. In a television show, then, you can have episode after episode where there are fight scenes and talking scenes and slowly develop the characters over ten or twenty episodes, but a movie requires a lot of big fight scenes and therefore inhibits those talking/character development scenes.

Imagine an Avengers TV show where Civil War was actually the finale: it would start with Captain America and Black Widow training the New Avengers, going on mission after mission, and we, the audience, could see how their characters would develop throughout. Unfortunately, we are seeing the finale without seeing the accompanying buildup, because, well, it's a movie.

This is partly why I consider Agents of SHIELD to be one of the best things in the MCU — if you compare the characters in Season 1 with the characters in Season 5, they are vastly different, but the audience actually got to see that change and growth and it happened over the course of seasons, rather than off-screen. We don't know how or when the Scarlet Witch/Vision relationship actually began, but we do with Fitz and Simmons and so we care more about them and their relationship.

Edited by alliterator on Mar 24th 2019 at 7:07:57 AM

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#99252: Mar 24th 2019 at 7:10:32 PM

That's why we need more MCU shorts.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#99254: Mar 24th 2019 at 7:32:23 PM

Me, too. They were a lot of fun. sad

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#99255: Mar 24th 2019 at 7:59:49 PM

This is partly why I consider Agents of SHIELD to be one of the best things in the MCU — if you compare the characters in Season 1 with the characters in Season 5, they are vastly different, but the audience actually got to see that change and growth and it happened over the course of seasons, rather than off-screen.

Coulson, Mack, and May don't seem all that different from Season 1. Jemma, Daisy, and Fitz do.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
#99256: Mar 24th 2019 at 8:18:23 PM

well yeah because mack wasn't in season 1

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#99257: Mar 25th 2019 at 12:12:46 AM

Coulson's and Mack's (from season 2 onward) changes are more subtle. Remember, there was a time when Mack abhorred violence and disliked everything weird and alien. Now he is the leader of Shield and is dating a woman who has superpower due to alien dann.

May in season 1 was completely closed of and traumatized. In a weird way she might be the one team member who got better due to even more trauma, making peace with her past, partly because she saw how the word could have looked like if she had made another decision and partly because the people she encountered have breaken down her emotional walls.

But yeah, the change in Sky, Jemma and Fitz from season to now is stunning. Can you imagine that back then we dubbed Fitzsimmons the Sciencebabies? Nobody would use the word to describe them now. They really have lost their wide-eyed innocence. Though they are still sciencing the sh... out of everything. You can take all their toys away and they still science themselves through problems.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#99258: Mar 25th 2019 at 12:17:59 AM

Also, the transition from Playful Hacker Skye to genuine Action Girl/Extraordinarily Empowered Girl Daisy Johnson was fantastic.

Hopefully, the character development stuff will change with the introduction of the Disney+ shows, including The Vision & Scarlet Witch, Winter Soldier & Falcon, and Loki (of all of these, Loki has perhaps received the most character development, having a large role in a total of five films — yes, Wanda was also in five films, but only if you count the post-credits scene from Winter Soldier). Then they can transition from the shows to the films and we can see the payoff of the character development while also seeing the development itself.

Edited by alliterator on Mar 25th 2019 at 12:23:29 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#99259: Mar 25th 2019 at 12:47:31 AM

I just hope that they won't discard Ao S in the process. I think I could deal with every other show being divorced from canon - I wouldn't be HAPPY about it, but I could deal with it. But Ao S (and Agent Carter to a lesser degree) is different.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#99260: Mar 25th 2019 at 12:50:40 AM

Considering how much of a fanbase AOS has (and Parrot Analytics says that it's in "the top 0.03 percent of in-demand TV shows worldwide"), they probably won't contradict anything in it, although they might still continue to ignore it (although I hope not).

And considering just how well received Daredevil, Jessica Jones, and Luke Cage were, I hope they don't recast/reboot those characters either, choosing instead to use the same actors when, inevitably, they are used again. I mean, now that they are going to make R-rated Deadpool movies, I hope they can make R-rated Daredevil movies.

Edited by alliterator on Mar 25th 2019 at 12:51:27 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#99261: Mar 25th 2019 at 12:56:45 AM

[up] Which still amuses me. I mean, we are talking about a show with a really bumpy start, which has been close to cancellation for at least three years now, which had its budget cut again and again and yet it is one of the most popular shows in the world and by now the longest running Marvel show ever.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#99262: Mar 25th 2019 at 1:00:24 AM

It just goes to show that traditional ratings don't really matter anymore.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#99263: Mar 25th 2019 at 1:13:18 AM

[up] And that sometimes people really need to move away from their snap judgements. Those "not in the know" were still making fun of Ao S when it already had hit its strive.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#99264: Mar 25th 2019 at 9:23:38 AM

This twitter thread demanding DOOM in the MCU is pure gold. Oh my god.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#99265: Mar 25th 2019 at 9:27:24 AM

That sure is a list of accomplishments.

Although any villain could be so good if they had writers retconning away all their failures.

Ironically enough see also Thanos

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#99266: Mar 25th 2019 at 9:28:11 AM

Writers do not retcon Doom's failures. Doom retcons Doom's failures, since if he fails, it was always Doombot who did it.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#99267: Mar 25th 2019 at 9:28:50 AM

Which are written by writers writing Doom.

C'mon.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#99269: Mar 25th 2019 at 9:30:49 AM

No, I mean, like, even if Doom fails, he will never admit to failure. There was even a bit when Arcade lights a match off Doom's armor — and later on, it's revealed that that's really a Doombot, whom Doom destroys...but maybe it was actually Doom? Doom likes to make people confused about which is really him and which is really a Doombot, since that way, nobody will ever know if he failed, was defeated, or not.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#99270: Mar 25th 2019 at 9:33:20 AM

I think the real joke is John Byrne and Jim Starlin furiously going "NUH UH" and taking a red pen to continuity.

[up] I think the best one was when Doom didn't try to pretend Squirrel Girl beat only a Doombot but just rewrote the memory in his head so that he won and decided to leave for no reason.

Edited by Bocaj on Mar 25th 2019 at 12:34:24 PM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#99271: Mar 25th 2019 at 9:37:03 AM

You know, I do find it kinda ironic that a while ago, everyone thought Agents of SHIELD was going nowhere and would eventually died out, while the Netflix shows were seen as the future of Marvel's tv series. Now the Netflix shows all got cancelled, while AoS not only already had more seasons than any of them, but is getting renewed beyond its "finale".

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#99272: Mar 25th 2019 at 9:41:07 AM

What goes around comes around and all that.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#99273: Mar 25th 2019 at 9:41:10 AM

[up][up]Partly, that's because Agents of SHIELD is aired on ABC, which is owned and thus controlled by Disney, rather than the Netflix shows, which were controlled by Netflix and Disney together (and they apparently did not have a good relationship). But, of course, just being on ABC didn't save Agent Carter or Inhumans — so the other part is the fact that Agents of SHIELD was just plain good and kept getting better and did so on a reduced budget, too.

Edited by alliterator on Mar 25th 2019 at 9:42:17 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#99274: Mar 25th 2019 at 9:42:01 AM

Doctor Doom vs Black Panther.

Now that is a fight worthy of the Gods.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters

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