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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#98976: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:13:03 PM

[up] And there is a reason why people are often Displeased with IM 3.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#98977: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:14:32 PM

There is, but this specific thing is not that reason.

People are used to that, especially comic book fans. Audiences have been suspending disbelief about that sort of thing for decades, ever since the olden days when we found out Batman and Superman exist in the same universe. They're not about to suddenly stop now.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 20th 2019 at 2:16:52 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#98978: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:20:24 PM

[up] I say that exactly the continuity is Marvel's best asset and that there is a REASON why they bothered to offer better explanations for the lack of Avengers interventions in later movies.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#98979: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:22:15 PM

Another thing that would make Sokovia-as-Latveria genius: the Doombots could be reverse-engineered from all the scattered Ultron bodies. Maybe have Doom boast that he "repurposed Stark's mechanical monsters that were Sokovia's downfall, and vastly improved upon them with his genius to become Latveria's perfect peacekeepers".

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#98980: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:22:48 PM

Please, whatever happens, no Avengers vs X-Men.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#98981: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:23:45 PM

Hasn’t Damage Control been cleaning up there, though? They even recovered Ultron’s central body, as seen in Homecoming.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#98982: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:27:07 PM

> no Avengers vs X-Men.

But I wanna see Wolverine vs Iron man

-pouts-

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#98983: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:28:24 PM

[up]Ironically, Wolverine was on the Avengers' side in that event.

This song needs more love.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#98984: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:28:56 PM

I say that exactly the continuity is Marvel's best asset and that there is a REASON why they bothered to offer better explanations for the lack of Avengers interventions in later movies.

And you're saying they shouldn't be allowed to do that for the X-Men? If that's one of their best assets, why are we suddenly assuming that the X-Men can't benefit from that?

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#98985: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:29:21 PM

Hasn’t Damage Control been cleaning up there, though?
Just because they went through the place doesn't mean they found everything. And besides, Doom would never admit to using Stark's technology - at best, he would say that he was "inspired" to create Doombots from the Iron Legion, but that he made them better than Stark ever could.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#98986: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:31:47 PM

Most of the Ultron bots weren’t Stark’s anyway; they were repurposed Hydra drones.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#98987: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:46:59 PM

I am saying that putting the X-men into the MCU is like putting them into a Straightjacket, and that you can have both, satisfying X-men stories AND crossovers by using the alternate universe angle.

I mean, can you imagine some of Magneto's people ending up in the MCU and realizing that it actually is possible for normal people and powered people to live mostly peacefully together? There are so many story opportunities in a set-up like this. Or Storm...can you imagine her ending up in the MCU discovering that her powers aren't really a problem but her skin colour suddenly is?

ShirowShirow Dinosaur Hunter from Land of Maple Syrup (Old as dirt)
Dinosaur Hunter
#98988: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:57:53 PM

It is honestly not the notion of "bigotry doesn't make sense" which bothers me. It is the notion that the Avengers would be okay with a government which actively hunts children with giant robots. In order for this to work Captain America of all people would have to condone racism or at least look in the other direction when it happens. Just...no. No. Adding the X-men would make the Avengers considerably less heroic while also putting a LOT of restrains on what you can do with the X-men.

Oh yes, I'm absolutely on your side on the whole "Keep'em separate" angle. There's one good reason why they should and several as to why the shouldn't be added to the same universe.

You are not alone.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#98989: Mar 20th 2019 at 3:20:45 PM

I am saying that putting the X-men into the MCU is like putting them into a Straightjacket, and that you can have both, satisfying X-men stories AND crossovers by using the alternate universe angle.
Having them transverse alternate universes every time they want a crossover is a big hassle, though. Especially if they want to do smaller crossovers, like have a single character from the Avengers appear in an X-Men film or have Wolverine be a part of the New Avengers or something like that.

Honestly, I'm okay with them occupying the same universe, even though the Avengers wouldn't interfere with things like Project WIDEAWAKE, because, I mean, how would they even know about it? And even if they did, how could they stop it? If they go against the government, they become fugitives and arrested; hell, we have children in cages today and there's not a lot people can do about them other than protest.

In order for this to work Captain America of all people would have to condone racism or at least look in the other direction when it happens.
Captain America doesn't work for the US government, though. In the comics, he's been shown that he is outraged about what the government does...but there isn't much he can do and he's also preoccupied with his own shit.

Edited by alliterator on Mar 20th 2019 at 3:22:01 AM

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#98990: Mar 20th 2019 at 3:21:27 PM

Yeah, aren’t those things funded by taxpayers? When you have the Avengers around I’m not sure if people are down with having giant purple robots going through public areas to hunt mutants. Especially with laws restricting the level of military force you can deploy in cities during non-emergency situations.

Especially when half the stories have Master Mold or other Sentinels concluding that “Sentinels exist to protect humanity from mutants + all mutants are humans = Sentinels exist to protect humans from themselves.” It’s both a darkly hilarious condemnation of the racism mutant bigotry symbolizes and not something I’m sure Congress is going to sign off on.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#98991: Mar 20th 2019 at 3:22:51 PM

My favorite Sentinel storyline is the one where Cyclops convinces them to attach the source of all mutations: the sun.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#98992: Mar 20th 2019 at 3:27:04 PM

I still maintain that they can put the X-Men in the MCU without dealing with the "Where were the mutants during X?" questions and the "Why did the Avengers ignore the bigotry?" questions by just making Endgame responsible for creating mutants.

Half the people on the planet were erased from existence. A percentage of those people, upon returning, had special powers. Suddenly there's millions of supers on a planet that was already fed up with super-shenanigans when it was just the Avengers.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Mar 20th 2019 at 4:27:21 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#98993: Mar 20th 2019 at 3:27:10 PM

I don't see dimension hopping as such a hassle, plus, it is pretty rare that characters cross over from one franchise to another as it is. Some selected characters too, but mostly every supporting cast stays in its various franchise.

and I think that having a little bit dimension hopping happening is way, waaaaay less a hassle than having to press the X-men into the MCU reality.

[up] That would also mean erasing a LOT of X-men backstory, plus, it's a little bit big of a retcon.

Edited by Swanpride on Mar 20th 2019 at 3:28:08 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#98994: Mar 20th 2019 at 3:27:25 PM

We already have the groundwork of the governments of the world wanting to control enhanced and dangerous people, in America at least with such people as Ross in control who think of them more as weapons and timebombs than people. With the Avengers already at odds with the government as of Infinity War and Ross and his ilk pretty much at liberty to do whatever they want, it's not any kind of stretch to introduce anything that would happen along those lines.

It's the same reason why I also think something like the Thunderbolts is not only possible, but likely.

I don't see dimension hopping as such a hassle, plus, it is pretty rare that characters cross over from one franchise to another as it is.

Having to technobabble an explanation for dimensional travel and reexplain it in every movie that requires it's presence and give an explanation for why it's not used all the time whenever there's a crisis (it doesn't actually solve the problem of asking why the characters don't interact with each other) is indeed far more than a hassle for both the writers and the viewing audience than simply having them in the same space and writing a universe such that the characters and their various journeys and problems can believably co-inhabit it.

I'm not against alternate universes as an idea, but I do think is way too small a reason to go to the lengths of introducing a cosmology like that. It's like using a Kill Sat to swat a fly.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 20th 2019 at 3:33:14 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#98995: Mar 20th 2019 at 3:32:59 PM

[up] Sure, but the enthusiasm of people for something like this really goes down when for one, the people who are hit are they neighbours and friends and two, it can even hit your own children if they just happen to mutate. And yes, people have the tendency to think that they are save, but humans have also the tendency to be less racist if they have regular contact with the people they are supposed to be racist again. So that the US would be racist against mutants is already only believable since due to its seize you can sell the concept that the mutants are a small enough group that most people wouldn't have regular contact with them. Buying also that at the same time there are a bunch of heroes which are cheered on despite there being no way to tell if they are mutants or not for both of them makes it even more of a stretch.

And having the "extra-hassle" will make the moments when those characters do meet more special. I mean, what is cooler, Storm meeting the Avengers or Storm discovering a whole new would which happens to contain the Avengers, too?

Edited by Swanpride on Mar 20th 2019 at 3:34:29 AM

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#98996: Mar 20th 2019 at 3:33:27 PM

My sole objection is for all the BS we deal with as a country, I think we’d draw the line at random roving patrols of GIANT ROBOTS.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#98997: Mar 20th 2019 at 3:35:19 PM

Buying also that at the same time there are a bunch of heroes which are cheered on despite there being no way to tell if they are mutants or not for both of them makes it even more of a stretch

The Avengers aren't cheered at the moment. They're all fugitives. That was the whole point of my bringing up that the government is acting in opposition of them.

Sure, but the enthusiasm of people for something like this really goes down when for one, the people who are hit are they neighbours and friends and two, it can even hit your own children if they just happen to mutate. And yes, people have the tendency to think that they are save, but humans have also the tendency to be less racist if they have regular contact with the people they are supposed to be racist again. So that the US would be racist against mutants is already only believable since due to its seize you can sell the concept that the mutants are a small enough group that most people wouldn't have regular contact with them.

Yes, that would be a good way to deal with it.

Storm meeting the Avengers or Storm discovering a whole new would which happens to contain the Avengers, too?

Depends, is X-Men a series that will be about the characters exploring new universes and meeting new cosmologies of beings? Because if not, the latter is superfluous given that all it does it allow the former to happen in a more complicated way. The later would only be more interesting if that's what the series would actually be about, because then it works with the premise and makes the double fun of enhancing the interest that that premise already delivers.

But at the same time, it's not what the X-Men is actually about, nor is it something that really fits the X-Men in particular. It doesn't make a lot of sense, especially given that these are characters who were initially part of the same universe in the first place.

This is, for instance, why it's a better idea to have the cast of Star Trek meet the cast of Star Wars, rather than vice versa. Star Trek is a series about exploring weird cosmic phenomenon and ending up in bizarre realities and such. Star Wars isn't, so doing a plot with that universe as the focus doesn't work.

Or why, when Marvel interacts with DC, in situations where there's actual dimension hopping going along we usually begin with a character for whom that works best. Usually, they start in the DC universe for similar reasons.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 20th 2019 at 3:41:33 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#98998: Mar 20th 2019 at 3:36:19 PM

[up][up] Oh, I can see that, but I can't see it happening from one day to another. The US would have to be carefully gaslight into accepting it. I mean, it took some time to end up with Trump, too.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#98999: Mar 20th 2019 at 3:38:08 PM

I don't see dimension hopping as such a hassle, plus, it is pretty rare that characters cross over from one franchise to another as it is.
No, in the MCU, characters tend to do a lot of crossovers between films. Captain Marvel had Nick Fury and Phil Coulson, Thor: Ragnarok had the Hulk and Doctor Strange, heck, even Ant-Man had the Falcon in it. Crossovers aren't the exception, they are the norm in the MCU.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#99000: Mar 20th 2019 at 3:48:48 PM

[up] And yes, the Wasp hasn't meet any of the Avengers yet.


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