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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#98951: Mar 20th 2019 at 1:46:53 PM

I have another idea...remember that Marvel wants to do those What If shows? Well, I always said that I wanted the basic idea for the X-men universe to be "what if the Kree never turned up and messed with human dna, which lead to mutant abilities developing naturally over time". So what if they do that? They could take their time and revisit all major events in the MCU, but this time with Mutants. So, since there are already powered people, there is never a Supersoldier serum and WWII might even end differently due to the involvement of Mutants. Without the Supersoldier serum there isn't a Hulk aso either, nor is there a Red Skull who removes the Tessaract from its hiding place (so, good luck finding the thing, Thanus). But history past WWII changes in that instead of a Red Scare, the US has a mutant scare. You might even involve some actors we already know from Agent Carter, but with a complete different role. Hell, you could have Howard Stark design the first Sentinels....and it would give them all the freedom in the world. They can set stories involving the Mutants wherever they want in the time-line.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#98952: Mar 20th 2019 at 1:48:36 PM

I also think that the X-Men are better off in their own verse. But the Fantastic Four? Bring it!

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#98953: Mar 20th 2019 at 1:50:47 PM

Maybe, but placing the X-Men in the same universe as the Avengers provides all sorts of opportunities to explore the themes of racism and bigotry that were so infamously portrayed in the comics. We could have another Civil War, or do the Sentinels thing. That would be dark.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#98954: Mar 20th 2019 at 1:52:06 PM

I actually really like the idea that Dr Doom rebuilt Sokovia and renamed it to Latveria, that provides a great tie-in with the MCU continuity, gives an easy explanation where this brand new country with its new leader came from, and gives an immediately understandable reason for the people of Latveria to love Doom the way they do.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#98955: Mar 20th 2019 at 1:53:13 PM

We've had the X-Men in their own universe for a while now. Bringing them back without being in the MCU is just a waste.

I do agree that the Fantastic 4 should take priority however.

Edited by LordVatek on Mar 20th 2019 at 4:55:36 AM

This song needs more love.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#98956: Mar 20th 2019 at 1:56:22 PM

Don't you mean the Fant4stic? [lol]

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 20th 2019 at 4:56:36 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#98957: Mar 20th 2019 at 1:56:59 PM

Ohhh...count me in as Latvia being the new Sokovia! That's a great idea!

Moviebob does a small victory lap.

[up][up] As I pointed out, you can always do a dimension hopping event. Basically you can have BOTH, them having free reign in their own universe and them going on adventures with the Avengers. You can even have Mutants stranding in the MCU for a while.

Edited by Swanpride on Mar 20th 2019 at 1:58:27 AM

ShirowShirow Dinosaur Hunter from Land of Maple Syrup (Old as dirt)
Dinosaur Hunter
#98958: Mar 20th 2019 at 1:59:10 PM

The one argument I've heard in favor of X-Men and Avengers being in the same universe that actually works is the "Bigotry doesn't make sense. It's irrational in the first place." thing. Because yes, arbitrarily hating group X despite group Y being the exact same thing is exactly what bigots do.

On the other hand, I still want them to be separate. Gives both groups more room to grow. And, given how interdimensional travel is something Tony, Lunella or Reed can slap together in their spare time it doesn't even begin to preclude a Crisis Crossover or exploration of the nature of stupid racism.

You are not alone.
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#98959: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:02:40 PM

[up][up]Please don’t post Moviebob stuff. Guy is completely irrelevant.

[up]There’s bigotry, and then there’s really stupid bigotry. Like...it would be like being racist against the same minority group except one has a tattoo so they’re fine. The difference is superficial at that point.

Edited by Beatman1 on Mar 20th 2019 at 5:04:26 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#98960: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:02:49 PM

I know in the official DC/Marvel crossover event, they made a big deal out of the Avengers going to the DC universe and being shocked at how much they love their superheroes in that universe. If the X-Men and MCU were separate universes, they could replicate that moment, but replacing the Avengers gawking at a Justice League museum with the X-Men gawking at the Captain America museum.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#98961: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:04:03 PM

[up][up][up] It is honestly not the notion of "bigotry doesn't make sense" which bothers me. It is the notion that the Avengers would be okay with a government which actively hunts children with giant robots. In order for this to work Captain America of all people would have to condone racism or at least look in the other direction when it happens. Just...no. No. Adding the X-men would make the Avengers considerably less heroic while also putting a LOT of restrains on what you can do with the X-men.

[up][up] ??????

Edited by Swanpride on Mar 20th 2019 at 2:04:29 AM

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#98962: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:04:10 PM

I mean having them be totally separate except for crossovers is basically what would happen anyway only without the dimension-hopping.

Edited by LordVatek on Mar 20th 2019 at 5:05:53 AM

This song needs more love.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#98963: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:04:43 PM

[up][up][up] That's kind of hilarious given how the DCCU has gone out of its way to make its heroes unpopular and/or pariahs, depending on the tone the film wishes to set.

I guess it could work to set up the X-Men and Avengers in alternate universes, but what would create such a universe-splitting event? Endgame? Is the MCU going to have to run separate continuities for different groups of characters? That could get really confusing for audiences.

[up][up] I know that the X-Men likes to explore issues of bigotry, but is there any reason to assume that Steve and company would be on the side of the bigots? That's assuming he's still around to be worried about things like that. Chris Evans' contract is up, remember?

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 20th 2019 at 5:06:39 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#98964: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:05:02 PM

There’s plenty of blokes who love watching Ellen but still vote against gay rights. It’s definitely not out of possibility that many people would love the Avengers and the Fantastic 4 but still put down mutants.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Mar 20th 2019 at 2:05:16 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#98965: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:05:27 PM

[up][up][up] But with the dimension hopping you wouldn't make BS excuses for why their world is so different from anyone else's and do giant recons.

[up] And how would you explain away the Avengers just looking in the other direction?

Edited by Swanpride on Mar 20th 2019 at 2:06:19 AM

BZL8 Yes. from Somewhere Since: Apr, 2017 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Yes.
#98966: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:05:45 PM

I am pretty sure this question was asked before, but I was wondering, would you prefer newer actors to take on the roles of the Fox characters that appear in the MCU, have the old actors back but have them play newer counterparts of their characters (something like with Ryan Reynolds / Wade Wilson), or have a mix of old and new talent?

If Deadpool appears in a MCU film, keep Ryan Reynolds. That's all.

...Bring me Doctor Doom, Feige and co.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#98967: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:07:10 PM

[up][up] ...... They wouldn’t?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#98968: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:07:53 PM

And why is there a need for an "universe splitting event"? It has already been established that there might be parallel universes. There is nothing to split, they are simply in a different timeline.

[up] So in pretty much every X-men movie you would need an explanation why they simply can't call the Avengers for help?

Edited by Swanpride on Mar 20th 2019 at 2:08:32 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#98969: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:08:10 PM

[up][up][up]Somewhat related, who would be a good actor for Dr. Doom?

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Mar 20th 2019 at 2:08:24 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#98970: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:08:38 PM

Since the topic moved on past my ninja edit, Chris Evans is departing, so Steve Rogers might not be around to object to anti-mutant bigotry. If different Avengers take different sides of that issue, it could spawn another Civil War style storyline.

Nothing in the MCU has "established an alternate timeline". That simply isn't a part of the film continuity. We have time manipulation (via the Time Stone) but not actual parallel universes.

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 20th 2019 at 5:09:22 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#98971: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:09:01 PM

And how would you explain away the Avengers just looking in the other direction?

That they wouldn’t but are limited in how much they can intervene because interfering with the US government’s actions will turn them into targets of the military. They may have to aid in secret.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Mar 20th 2019 at 2:10:11 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#98972: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:10:02 PM

[up][up][up][up] So just like every movie then already.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#98973: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:10:14 PM

So in pretty much every X-men movie you would need an explanation why they simply can't call the Avengers for help?

This has always been a thing in these movies. Why didn't Cap call the Avengers in Winter Soldier? Or Thor in Dark World?

This song needs more love.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#98974: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:10:44 PM

[up][up][up] So you want me to dislike all the Avengers for being rampart hypocrites?

[up] Because Fury didn't know who he could trust and who he could reach without alerting the wrong people (plus, the only Avenger who might - might if he had built new suits - have been available anyway was Ironman), and because the movie was set mostly on space and only came back to earth for a short time towards the end.

Edited by Swanpride on Mar 20th 2019 at 2:12:35 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#98975: Mar 20th 2019 at 2:12:24 PM

Or anybody come help save the President when he was kidnapped in IM 3 even though people knew where he was for like half a day, etc and so on.

The X-Men, likewise, have had that problem for a while too. Like the very obvious question of why they don't just call Quicksilver (who in the films is way, way faster than either the comics or the MCU version) for every problem they ever had, instead of using him sparingly.

It is what it is. Marvel is a little more open with the characters interacting with each other than DC is, but in films it's still difficult due to things like having to pay actors or use whatever powerful characters' signature special effects and such, so the studios would kindly like us to suspend our disbelief.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 20th 2019 at 2:13:53 AM


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