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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#98876: Mar 19th 2019 at 9:07:13 PM

Fury said that it was the events of Thor that made them realize that they were not alone in the universe when the Avengers questioned why SHEILD were making Tesseract-based weapons.

Speaking on behalf of SHIELD as a whole (and smalls bits of humanity in general) this is still true - from what we've seen he kept the events of Captain Marvel a secret from goddamn everybody, the Avenger's themselves included.

On top of that there were plenty of emergencies where Fury could have used Carol’s help. Avengers, Winter Soldier, and Age of Ultron where the hero nearly failed. Another alien war was about to happen, HYDRA was a second away from killing millions, and Ultron was seeking to wipe out humanity.

You mean emergencies where he had a team on hand, assembled with a plan and ability to end the threat? The entire point of the Avengers is that Carol isn't there, she's who-the-fuck-knows-where in the universe preventing a genocide and waging a war against a galactic-level empire. Earth cannot afford to survive by her grace; even if she can move faster than light that doesn't mean instant transmission, and as seen in the post credits scene it takes potentially months for her to arrive at the compound.

For all we know he did page her when the portal opened over New York, and then paged her again two hours later when the Avengers took care of it - not mention that Thor himself showed up shortly after Loki, so there's the spaceborn intervention come to help. Nevermind that Hydra and Ultron are humanity and the Avengers own messes to clean up in the first place.

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#98877: Mar 19th 2019 at 9:08:18 PM

Also worth noting that choosing to soft retcon things and "getting careless with the timeline" are two different things. Changing minor details when said details would otherwise get in the way of a fuller story is one of the things that has be done in a long running universe with a lot of criss crossing content.

ManOfSin Since: Mar, 2015
#98878: Mar 19th 2019 at 9:12:20 PM

[up]3x

Not saying it doesn’t ruins the franchise. I just found it ironic that all these retcons are happening after it turned 9 years old similar to the X-Men franchise.

Edited by ManOfSin on Mar 19th 2019 at 12:29:11 PM

TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#98879: Mar 19th 2019 at 9:14:26 PM

And in the Winter Soldier Fury said he didn’t know who to trust besides Steve.

Consider the context in which he made that statement - he's talking about a situation specifically local to SHIELD. Consider also that he's actively lying to Steve's face when he made that statement. He didn't exactly say that he couldn't trust Tony Stark or Thor either - other people who, like Carol, had exactly nothing to do with the situation.

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They
ManOfSin Since: Mar, 2015
#98880: Mar 19th 2019 at 9:26:46 PM

@wisewillow

You’re forgetting about the Knee which outgun humanity that have been conquering worlds and shapeshifting aliens that could potentially take over Earth from the inside. And this is what motivated him to form the Avengers initiative.

[up]

Fury has no way of contacting Thor. The movie made a point that Fury has trust issues and didn’t trust Natasha who he worked with for years. So I wouldn’t put it behind him that he didn’t trust Tony. He trusted Steve because fought against Hydra back in the day.

And this is no doubt a retcon, so none of this was in the film maker’s minds.

Edited by ManOfSin on Mar 19th 2019 at 12:35:09 PM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#98881: Mar 19th 2019 at 9:34:08 PM

And this is no doubt a retcon, so none of this was in the film maker’s minds.
Just because the filmmaker's didn't know about it yet doesn't make it a retcon. When Iron Man introduced SHIELD, they didn't know that half of them would turn out to be Hydra, but that's not considered a retcon. The filmmaker's left Fury's past vague so that they could add to it without any issues. That's just good sense.

No past fact has been contradicted. The arrival of Thor still caused SHIELD and the World Council to enact Phase II (and hey, they were Hydra anyway, so they were probably looking for an excuse). And what, he was going to call Carol to deal with Hydra, a distinctly human problem? Yeah, right. Plus, again: she might have been galaxies away.

Kevin Feige was also asked why Fury never contacted Carol before now. His response was, "What makes you think he hasn't?"

ManOfSin Since: Mar, 2015
#98882: Mar 19th 2019 at 9:39:04 PM

I’ve seen The Winter Soldier twist been called a retcon by many people such as Screen Junkies. This is the definition of a retcon after all:

“revise (an aspect of a fictional work) retrospectively, typically by introducing a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events.”

Edited by ManOfSin on Mar 19th 2019 at 12:51:58 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#98883: Mar 19th 2019 at 9:47:33 PM

So does the pager have an option for "nevermind we took care of it, you can zip on back Carol"?

ManOfSin Since: Mar, 2015
#98884: Mar 19th 2019 at 9:49:15 PM

And the idea that Fury wouldn’t consider the lives of millions of people on the line and Hydra(who have access to alien technology) taking over the world to be an emergency worthy of Carol’s time because it only involves humans sounds really silly to me. Especially, when he’s in a situation where he doesn’t know who to trust.

Fury had zero had context to what was happening in the post-credit scene of Infinity War and yet he still called her.

Edited by ManOfSin on Mar 19th 2019 at 1:12:54 PM

TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#98886: Mar 19th 2019 at 10:09:18 PM

Fury had zero had context to what was happening in the post-credit scene of Infinity War and yet he still called her.

Well yes, that's kind of the point. The Avengers fell apart, Tony Stark went missing after aliens parked their massive ass ship in New York for an hour, wrecked the place, and then fucked off. Then some other aliens made a mess of Prague, and a couple hours after that everyone starts turning to dust at random, Fury and Maria themselves included. Cap/Rhodes may or may not have even had a method of contacting him to relay what Banner knew, given how quickly everything went down and how secretive he is.

All he knows is that, whatever this is, this is happening now; there is no context; there is no gameplan; there is no A team. This is the big one, there is no time, page Carol while you still can.

Edited by TheAirman on Mar 19th 2019 at 12:11:08 PM

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#98887: Mar 19th 2019 at 10:10:51 PM

Seeing Rey, The Shape of Water, and Woody side-by-side has me shook.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Mar 19th 2019 at 10:11:06 AM

JamieMoon The Bad Witch from The Background World Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#98889: Mar 19th 2019 at 10:24:43 PM

Rey looks angry at fish person

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
RAlexa21th Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer from California (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer
#98890: Mar 19th 2019 at 10:28:57 PM

Carol is standing next to blue people again.

Continue writing our story of peace.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#98891: Mar 19th 2019 at 10:29:27 PM

I’ve seen The Winter Soldier twist been called a retcon by many people such as Screen Junkies. This is the definition of a retcon after all
Well, then why are you complaining? If that's considered a retcon, then retcons are neutral, neither good nor bad, so calling something a retcon in an attempt to complain about it is weird. "That's bad, it's a retcon" doesn't make any sense.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#98892: Mar 19th 2019 at 10:57:53 PM

Disney is now God, all hail Disney.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
ManOfSin Since: Mar, 2015
#98893: Mar 19th 2019 at 10:59:49 PM

[up][up]

Already said this doesn’t really ruin anything for me. Just making an observation.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#98894: Mar 19th 2019 at 11:11:49 PM

[up][up]Eternal power to the Mouse!

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#98895: Mar 19th 2019 at 11:23:46 PM

burn the mouse take his house burn the mouse take his house burn the mouse take his house burn the mouse take his house burn the mouse take his house burn the mouse take his house burn the mouse take his house burn the mouse take his house burn the mouse take his house burn the mouse take his house burn the mouse take his house burn the mouse take his house burn the mouse take his house burn the mouse take his house burn the mouse take his house burn the mouse take his house burn the mouse take his house burn the mouse take his house

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
ShirowShirow Dinosaur Hunter from Land of Maple Syrup (Old as dirt)
Dinosaur Hunter
#98896: Mar 19th 2019 at 11:24:12 PM

I'm honestly scared by how much media power they have now.

You are not alone.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#98897: Mar 19th 2019 at 11:49:59 PM

Guys...a little bit more careful. There are surely still people who haven't seen Captain Marvel yet.

And no, I don't think that Marvel is getting in any way sloppy with their timeline. Okay, they have changed something you could only know if you freeze frame Got G. That is nothing new, though, Marvel has changed the more hidden details all the time. And you can still explain that one away anyway. And Captain Marvel if anything shows how careful Marvel is, I was frankly impressed how they managed to insert the story into the timeline without creating a bunch of plot-holes. The only time they really f... up was with Spiderman and I suspect that this might be more the result of sloppy communication somewhere along the line. I suspect since every fan noticed and complained about it, they will be more careful in the future.

ShirowShirow Dinosaur Hunter from Land of Maple Syrup (Old as dirt)
Dinosaur Hunter
#98898: Mar 19th 2019 at 11:56:52 PM

Still loving Hela's "Faaaake!" line.

You are not alone.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#98899: Mar 20th 2019 at 12:00:37 AM

The major flubs tend to be the easter eggs. Thrown in as continuity nods and because they don't know yet that they'll be contradicted or done differently down the line.

Captain America's shield showing up in Iron Man 2 except of course its not the thing.

Fury's invitation to Tony to the Avengers Initiative only to have him unceremoniously booted between movies because he was just too Tony and because they wanted the Avengers movie to go a little differently.

As alluded, the Infinity Gauntlet in Odin's treasure room.

Even Thanos' smirk at the court death line now that we know what he's like.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#98900: Mar 20th 2019 at 12:06:57 AM

That's mostly a phase one problem. They became more careful later on. Thankfully a lot of the problems in phase one can be explained away. Ie the shield wasn't really Cap's shield, but some sort of prototype Howard made at one point.


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