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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Lymantria Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph from Toronto Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
#98251: Mar 13th 2019 at 7:45:41 PM
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#98252: Mar 13th 2019 at 7:46:23 PM

There's too many white male critics & not enough everyone else basically.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Lymantria Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph from Toronto Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
#98253: Mar 13th 2019 at 7:48:06 PM

Isn't that true?

[up][up][up] Agreed.

Edited by Lymantria on Mar 13th 2019 at 10:48:23 AM

Join the Five-Man Band cleanup project!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#98254: Mar 13th 2019 at 7:48:33 PM

Why yes it is.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#98255: Mar 13th 2019 at 7:49:03 PM

Here is the exact quote from a Marie Claire interview:

"About a year ago, I started paying attention to what my press days looked like and the critics reviewing movies, and noticed 
it appeared to be overwhelmingly white male. So, I spoke to 
Dr Stacy Smith at the USC Annenberg Inclusion Initiative, who put together a study to confirm that. Moving forward, I decided to make sure my press days were more inclusive. After speaking with you, the film critic Valerie Complex and a few other women of colour, it sounded like across the board they weren’t getting the same opportunities as others. When I talked to the facilities that weren't providing it, they all had different excuses."

Edited by alliterator on Mar 13th 2019 at 7:51:28 AM

IniuriaTalis Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: Love, football, the arts, the occasional pint
#98256: Mar 13th 2019 at 7:49:33 PM

[up][up][up]Yes. Hence why the alt-right keeps on needing to pretend that she said that she doesn't want white men to watch the movie or she doesn't think men have the right to opinions and other fake tripe like that.

Edited by IniuriaTalis on Mar 13th 2019 at 10:49:57 AM

Does anyone actually read these?
Lymantria Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph from Toronto Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
#98257: Mar 13th 2019 at 7:49:50 PM
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#98258: Mar 13th 2019 at 7:52:01 PM

And then there were her comments about A Wrinkle in Time:

“Am I saying I hate white dudes?” asked the Oscar-winning “Room” actress, a question that she’d repeat twice more during her speech. She answered with a sneer, “No, I’m not … [but if] you make the movie that is a love letter to women of color, there is an insanely low chance a woman of color will have a chance to see your movie and review your movie.”

Larson continued, “[Audiences] are not allowed enough chances to read public discourse on these films by the people that the films were made for. I do not need a 40-year-old white dude to tell me what didn’t work for him about ‘[A] Wrinkle in Time.’ It wasn’t made for him. I want to know what it meant to women of color, to biracial women, to teen women of color, to teens that are biracial.”

Of course, people took the "40 year white dude" out of context and then said that she said that about Captain Marvel, which was blatantly untrue.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
IniuriaTalis Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: Love, football, the arts, the occasional pint
#98260: Mar 13th 2019 at 7:55:46 PM

For those angry white dudes who are so used to having the entire pie while everyone else goes without dessert, asking for them to give someone else a slice sounds like a personal attack.

Does anyone actually read these?
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#98261: Mar 13th 2019 at 8:05:25 PM

I mean, it is political but that doesn't make it bad or that it was wrong. And even just talking about the film itself, from what I have heard, CM definitely does have a feminist subtext to it in that Carol gets told a lot by men that she can't do this or do that, or she isn't good or strong enough, but in the end she doesn't give a fuck because they're wrong and she proves it.

That's kinda the thing about people who complain about things being "too political": too often, it's either a sign of a lack of self-awareness, or the person being totally disingenuous. They complain about the film having politics, instead of being more honest and saying they don't like the film's specific brand of politics. And you know, it's fine in principle to dislike a film because of that, but if that's the case you should be upfront about it instead of trying to cloak that in order to make yourself look more "objective".

IniuriaTalis Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: Love, football, the arts, the occasional pint
#98262: Mar 13th 2019 at 8:09:38 PM

One criticism that especially stuck out to me in that regards was that the movie "injected politics" by making the Skrulls a refugee metaphor. Then, in the same breath the person says that they were supposed to be a communism analog, as though that isn't just as political in its own way. They just updated the characters to be a more modern commentary.

Does anyone actually read these?
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#98263: Mar 13th 2019 at 8:12:33 PM

Maybe I should start responding to people saying something they don't feel like listening to is "too political" by asking "Who did they tell you to vote for?" Or "Did it support anarchy, oligarchy, representative democracy, or what?"

Make them defend why it's "political" and not just "something they don't want to hear".


I don't know if it's been said yet, but the threat rating joke was hilarious and accurate to the movie itself.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Mar 13th 2019 at 10:13:28 AM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#98264: Mar 13th 2019 at 8:15:35 PM

Well in fairness, being "political" has a much broader meaning than something that direct. But they don't really seem to understand that, or only accept it when it suits their argument.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#98265: Mar 14th 2019 at 12:57:52 AM

Generally, one can dismiss complaints about something being "too political" as actually being complaints about something saying things the complainer doesn't agree with.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#98266: Mar 14th 2019 at 1:16:09 AM

Oh man...let's take this from the top:

I think that we shouldn't even buy into the idea that Brie Larson's comments were "clumsy". I think it was very clear what she meant, and by saying that she should have worded it differently, we imply that there was some honest misunderstanding which lead to the controversy. There wasn't. She was under attack before the comments even happened, and she was deliberately taken out of context.

Brie Larson is absolutely right when she points out the lack of diversity in film criticism, and Captain Marvel is actually a good example to explain why she is right. I commented before that it sometimes sound as if the reviewers saw a different movie, so over the place where the judgements regarding it, and after having seen it, I know get a little bit more why this is the place. One example: I left the theatre thinking "wow, this was practically feminism the movie". The first thing my male friends said was "they barely made a deal out of her gender". That is not because my friends are somehow sexist (they are in fact very open-minded), but because there are some references which some people might pick up on and other don't. And females have a better chance to see it, because they are more likely to experience what the main theme of the movie and the core of Carol's character arc is (and if you don't pick up on it, you might end up with the conclusion that she doesn't have a character arc at all). Anyway, Brie Larson's point is that you need diverse voices in film criticism because you can't expect of every critic to understand every cultural context on earth. Different people pick up on different things, and if all film critics are white male, it can lead to them dismissing movies off-hand because some aspects might go right over their head.

And about the question if actors are allowed to be political: Naturally they are, just like everyone else, and it is a strange double standard to act as if Brie Larson shouldn't be. Especially since she isn't a keyboard warrior but an actual activist.

And Marvel movies themselves have been political since Tony held his speech about a system with "zero accountability" in Iron Man.

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#98268: Mar 14th 2019 at 2:17:56 AM

I hate stupid people.

Dear God do I despise morons, they give me a feeling that's like my brain being stabbed.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#98269: Mar 14th 2019 at 2:25:58 AM

Stupid people are fine if they're at least willing to learn from mistakes and/or admit when they fuck up. Let's face it, we all fuck up and do and say stupid shit in our lives.

The real problem are people who are willfully ignorant and stupid and completely unwilling to learn or even admit their mistakes.

One thing to remember is that the people who spread this kind of bullshit aren't even necessarily stupid in a general sense. A lot of them may be fairly well off and educated. You don't necessarily need to be a stupid person in general to do or say stupid things. There's a reason a lot of anti-vaxxers (for example) are educated and financially secure suburbanites.

Edited by M84 on Mar 14th 2019 at 5:29:38 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#98271: Mar 14th 2019 at 5:21:29 AM

Whatever it takes.

(I'm not ready, I'm not ready, I'm not ready...)

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Mar 14th 2019 at 8:22:05 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#98272: Mar 14th 2019 at 5:22:30 AM

Me too, Thor. Me too.

Can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#98273: Mar 14th 2019 at 5:36:13 AM

I like how the two strongest Avengers are going to be good friends.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#98274: Mar 14th 2019 at 5:38:42 AM

Hold on. Is that post-title scene with Carol in civvies and Mjolnir? WTF? Or is that just a weird angle on Stormbreaker?

Edit: Okay, it's Stormbreaker. Just looked odd for a minute.

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 14th 2019 at 8:46:04 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#98275: Mar 14th 2019 at 5:49:54 AM

Yeah, I first thought it was Mjonir, too.


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