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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#97976: Mar 11th 2019 at 1:12:21 AM

I don't dislike time travel stories (if they are done well), but also Kang's the Big Bad of one of my favorite Avengers stories of all time: The Kang War.

Edited by alliterator on Mar 11th 2019 at 1:12:33 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#97977: Mar 11th 2019 at 1:17:11 AM

Keep in mind the reason Scott got caught was because he broke into his boss's house and stole his car which he crashed into a pool.

Yep. After he returned the money they stole back to their customers. Scott could have gotten away with it if he had just left it at that, but he couldn't resist inflicting a more personal revenge on his boss.

That was Scott's main flaw — he liked the thrill of being a Robin Hood like figure fighting back against The Man.

That said, his arc in the movie isn't really about overcoming this. He had already mostly outgrown it while in prison. His backslide into theft is due more to shortsighted desperation after doing the math and realizing he wouldn't be able to see Cassie for years. After which he is then drawn into Hank and Hope's family drama which showcases his more mature side.

Edited by M84 on Mar 11th 2019 at 4:19:07 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#97978: Mar 11th 2019 at 2:27:05 AM

It's what makes MCU!Scott one of my favourite characters - he doesn't really see himself as any kind of hero, he's literally a dude who made mistakes but by and large just wants to do the right thing. Even after Civil War he was happy to serve his term of house arrest fair and square.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#97979: Mar 11th 2019 at 2:48:15 AM

The issue with Scott is that he uses any excuse to slide back into old habits. What he has to learn is to put his daughter first and not his own desires.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#97980: Mar 11th 2019 at 2:59:34 AM

I mean the guy didn't have a lot of options at that point.

Again he actually did have a job at first so its not like he went back to stealing first chance he got.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#97981: Mar 11th 2019 at 3:25:28 AM

The reason he lost that job is also pretty sympathetic, though still a mistake on his part. There's a strong stigma against hiring ex-convicts (for that matter there's also a stigma against accepting ex-convicts into college). If Scott had been honest about being an ex-con, he might not have gotten even that Baskin-Robbins job. Come to think of it, that's why he was working at Baskin-Robbins. Every time he was honest about being an ex-convict, he failed to get the job. No tech company would hire him. Possibly because they were concerned he might try to pull a Robin Hood act on them if he found out their dirty secrets.

This is the MCU after all. It's presumably rather difficult to find a big tech corporation that is more or less on the up and up and not secretly HYDRA or something. Maybe it's not as bad as the mainstream Marvel comics verse, where damn near every big corporation is up to some supervillain bullshit, but still.

Edited by M84 on Mar 11th 2019 at 6:28:58 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#97982: Mar 11th 2019 at 3:31:43 AM

Doesn't Baskin-Robbins hire convicts?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#97983: Mar 11th 2019 at 3:34:27 AM

Not in the MCU apparently. Though the fact that Scott lied about it might have been a factor too.

Baskin-Robbins always finds out.

Edited by M84 on Mar 11th 2019 at 6:35:15 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#97984: Mar 11th 2019 at 3:37:40 AM

That is the problem: he lied about his status. That'll get you fired from 99% of jobs, and the ones it doesn't get you fired from are probably fronts for organized crime.

Anyway, I think we've proven that dramatic character development is not necessary or even desirable in all MCU films. Which makes the insistence of some of these YouTube folks that Carol should have had it all the more absurd.

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 11th 2019 at 6:38:47 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#97985: Mar 11th 2019 at 3:47:48 AM

Yeah, a Static Character is not necessarily a bad character.

Disgusted, but not surprised
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#97986: Mar 11th 2019 at 4:01:47 AM

I believe I said it before, but the problem is a lot of prople mix up Character Development with Character Progression.

To develop a character is to show how it tick, why it acts the way it does, etc, you don't need to change how a character acts to do that.

Edit: One more thing: I love Time Travel stories and therefore would gladly welcome Kang as our new Evil Overlord.

Edited by HailMuffins on Mar 11th 2019 at 8:04:27 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#97987: Mar 11th 2019 at 4:08:20 AM

I share the distaste for time travel,it over complicates everything and serves as a plot reset button

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#97988: Mar 11th 2019 at 4:14:02 AM

I'm not happy with time travel in major works either, and I hope Endgame doesn't overdo it. The Time Stone's version at least seems to be constrained by certain rules.

I want to avoid major spoilers, but Carol does go through an emotional arc over the course of Captain Marvel. She starts out trying to emulate the Kree ideal of emotionless reason, but can't resist snarking at everything and displays a tendency towards recklessness. She starts to doubt her self-image when she finds evidence of her past life on Earth, then goes through a process of discovery and revelation, and comes out of it more... natural. Like she's not constantly fighting against herself. We also find out a lot about her as a person along the way.

That's as "developed" as I've seen any recent superhero.

[down] EXACTLY. But there is also the classic Quest for Identity going on.

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 11th 2019 at 7:20:03 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#97989: Mar 11th 2019 at 4:18:45 AM

Captain Marvel's character arc seems to revolve around her trying to live up to the Kree ideal only to realize that the Kree ideal is bullshit.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#97990: Mar 11th 2019 at 4:20:49 AM

Honestly, without seeing the movie, just the fact that it is about discovering identity puts her on the same level of character development Moana has by default. And that is more than enough for me.

Count me in as not liking time travel plots usually. Ao S handled them very well, but overall the inconsistent logic in them tends to give me a headache.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#97992: Mar 11th 2019 at 4:24:18 AM

[up][up]Yes. The other thing about Carol is that she's basically a whole person already. She doesn't have to learn not to be an asshole, like Tony (for example). She doesn't have to grow up from a childish state of mind (like Peter). She doesn't have a secret identity to protect. She was a normal, well-balanced individual before she got her powers. What followed messed with her head in a number of ways, and her quest is to recover her past and therefore her wholeness.

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 11th 2019 at 7:25:16 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#97993: Mar 11th 2019 at 4:26:21 AM

I loved the bit in the first Young Avengers comics story where the characters complained about Kang and Time Travel.

Jessica Jones: Is this a time travel thing? 'Cause I hate time travel things.

Tony Stark: If it's Kang, it's a time travel thing.

Jessica Jones: See. That's why I hate Kang.

Edited by M84 on Mar 11th 2019 at 7:27:24 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#97994: Mar 11th 2019 at 4:28:59 AM

What if it’s a “plucking multiple versions of characters from all across history for a big brawl” type story?

Like Mortal Kombat 11 is currently doing.

Edited by slimcoder on Mar 11th 2019 at 4:29:22 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#97996: Mar 11th 2019 at 4:31:08 AM

[up][up]There are not enough "Nopes" in existence.

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#97997: Mar 11th 2019 at 4:31:44 AM

It’s not really convoluted, it’s just an excuse to have old versions of characters interacting with their changed versions & then going back to whoever they came from unchanged for the most part.

Like arms dealer Tony Stark meeting modern day Tony Stark.

Edited by slimcoder on Mar 11th 2019 at 4:32:18 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#97998: Mar 11th 2019 at 4:32:59 AM

You mean like the first Injustice game? Netherrealm is certainly sticking to the "write what you know" rule, at least.

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 11th 2019 at 7:33:18 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#97999: Mar 11th 2019 at 4:33:14 AM

That sort of thing is best played for comedy if at all. Like in the World of Warcraft quests where you can either go in the past or the future, and both the Past You and Future You insult you. Especially if you play both quests back-to-back.

At the very least, it would be kind of funny to see Iron Man Tony beat the shit out of Arms Dealer Tony.

Edited by M84 on Mar 11th 2019 at 7:36:54 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#98000: Mar 11th 2019 at 4:36:20 AM

[up][up] The main antagonist of 11 is a Time/Dimension God upset at the changes made during the games reboot.

To combat the heroes she is recruiting an army of various past versions of characters from across time & dimensions.

It helps that the game has a gear system allowing for character customization so ya can get the same character to look very different from each other.

Edited by slimcoder on Mar 11th 2019 at 4:37:12 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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