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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#97651: Mar 6th 2019 at 2:16:29 PM

I think I have a list of my favorite MCU lines somewhere. Spoilers: most of them are from the Guardians movies, Black Panther, Thor: Ragnarok and Infinity War.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#97652: Mar 6th 2019 at 2:32:46 PM

Doctor Strange is my least favorite MCU movie overall, even though I think it's at least more well-done than TDW and TIH. TIH had the excuse of coming out early and not being particularly ambitious, and TDW was obnoxiously mediocre but had a few bright spots. Strange was pretty, but aside from Mordo the cast suffered direly from the Eight Deadly Words and the shallow neopaganism-esque "spirituality" was grating.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#97653: Mar 6th 2019 at 2:49:23 PM

It did brought us one of the best lines, though.

"Dormamu, I've come to bargain!"

Whatever faults you think DS had, the climax was pretty original in regards to the MCU. No pillar of light, if nothing else.

AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#97654: Mar 6th 2019 at 2:53:34 PM

Yeah DS is like some inverted spike of quality in Phase 3, easily its weakest link. Once again, it doesn't give me much of anything that I can't find elsewhere in the franchise.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#97655: Mar 6th 2019 at 3:08:08 PM

It's a decent line but unfortunately loses a lot of impact if you've been spoiled on it. Whereas the truly good films IMO like Black Panther and The Winter Soldier I can rewatch on multiple occasions and still enjoy the moment of the The Reveal, because the scenes are well crafted overall and not so reliant on the twist factor.

MileRun Since: Jan, 2001
#97656: Mar 6th 2019 at 3:18:10 PM

For me, Doctor Strange suffered from being really inconsistent with its themes. The plot thread of Strange trying to fix his hands kinda disappeared without resolution halfway through the movie, which is really bad because that was the plot thread that tied most closely to his main flaw and character growth. Instead, it's replaced by "See the bigger picture" and "Lesser evil/greater good" motifs, which don't really mesh with anything established about Strange in act 1.

The most laughable thing about the movie for me was when Strange realizes he's killed one of Kaecillius' followers, and he rants to the Ancient One about how the Hippocratic Oath means he vowed to never hurt anyone, as though that has any sort of significance to Strange's character arc.

I mean, the movie sort of comes back around in the end, since Strange's willingness to infinitely suffer for the greater good demonstrates his growth from the self-centered asshat he was at the start. That's just a really, really roundabout way to go about it. If nothing else, though, I do appreciate how esoteric that climax was.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#97657: Mar 6th 2019 at 6:59:09 PM

A lot of those problems would have been fixed if we had started with Strange as a student of Kamar Taj and trained his character arc more strongly on him learning where to let go of Stephen Strange the surgeon and where to adopt Stephen Strange the wizard, or vice versa: what to keep.

Like, Strange talking about the Hippocratic Oath and his reaction to having to kill someone was my favorite character moment in the film, but I'd admittedly agree that the character arc around it doesn't really lead up to or do anything with it - he doesn't dramatically spare anyone later, he doesn't really have an opinion on violence beforehand, it's just kind of there.

Which is a lot of Dr. Strange's problem: while he does go through an arc of sorts, the main plot of the movie has little do to with it. It's just kind of dropped into his lap. Which can work, but not if you're also trying to do the "origin/life's upheaval" thing too.

Even his sacrifice at the end doesn't really connect to anything. They could have strengthened both by having there be a stronger "there's more strength in ingenuity than violence" theme in the film (which imo would have made it a lot better regardless of approach), but they didn't. Instead, we got a more standard "sometimes you have to break the rules to win the game" story, which was kind of meh.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 6th 2019 at 7:04:54 AM

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#97658: Mar 6th 2019 at 7:04:22 PM

Basically, DS' problem was having a ton of cool ideas and setpieces with no thread connecting it all together.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#97659: Mar 6th 2019 at 7:04:37 PM

Sorry, accidental double post.

Edited by HailMuffins on Mar 6th 2019 at 12:04:59 PM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#97660: Mar 6th 2019 at 8:15:47 PM

Basically, DS' problem was having a ton of cool ideas and setpieces with no thread connecting it all together.
I think that's why I forgive Doctor Strange quite a lot — because it does have a lot of really cool ideas and setpieces and in a lot of places, it works. It just...doesn't congeal overall. It tries to do the Iron Man approach, but Iron Man worked because it had a throughline of "Tony Stark sees the truth about his weapons and changes." Strange never realizes how big of a jerk he was nor does he really change being a jerk, even if he saves the world.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#97661: Mar 6th 2019 at 8:20:58 PM

Let's shit on Inhumans some more, because there's no amount of shitting on that would be enough. Apparently the actor for Black Bolt CREATED HIS OWN FORM OF SIGN LANGUAGE for the role, and that insane amount of effort was totally wasted on such a terrible product. The scene where a young Black Bolt accidentally vaporizes his parents is so impossibly poorly handled that it's legitimately hilarious, you just need to see for yourself.

MileRun Since: Jan, 2001
#97662: Mar 6th 2019 at 8:24:56 PM

I'm grateful for Inhumans because it gives us something to indisputably call the worst thing in the MCU.

I've seen people go to bat for Iron Fist. I have not seen anyone with anything good to say about Inhumans.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#97663: Mar 6th 2019 at 8:42:39 PM

And to think Inhumans still has honest to God fans willing to defend it.

Goes to ya some things are not subjective.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#97664: Mar 6th 2019 at 8:47:53 PM

Does it? The only good thing I've ever heard about Inhumans is that the final episode wasn't as bad as the rest of the show.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#97665: Mar 6th 2019 at 9:03:40 PM

The best thing about Inhumans was that it didn't last very long.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#97666: Mar 6th 2019 at 9:12:40 PM

Inhumans convinced Marvel they needed the X-Men back. I guess that’s worth it, right?

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#97667: Mar 6th 2019 at 10:20:56 PM

Anson Mount's performance as Black Bolt is the other most commonly cited positive of Inhumans I've seen.

Prowler I'm here for our date, Rose! Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
I'm here for our date, Rose!
#97668: Mar 6th 2019 at 11:34:04 PM

[up][up][up] I've read a lot of funny things about Inhumans, but for some reason I find this one comment the funniest.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#97669: Mar 6th 2019 at 11:40:17 PM

I liked Doctor Strange's rant. Just because other people aren't his main concern, doesn't mean that he should be just okay with taking lives. He IS a doctor after all. And remember, holding off death is a matter of pride for him.

Doctor Strange is frustrating for me because I know the movie could have been amazing with one or two rewrites, but I really, really like the themes the movie addresses. And the visuals. And the finale.

Btw, it is kind of funny that every time Doctor Strange is faced with a world-destroying adversity, the solution is to allow himself to lose.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#97670: Mar 6th 2019 at 11:45:01 PM

I like that Strange is an explicitly pacifist hero and that at the climax he defeats his opponents with ingenuity instead of killing, but it was a bad idea for the movie to not introduce this until more than halfway in.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#97671: Mar 6th 2019 at 11:53:21 PM

Strange being upset about killing that guy actually does fit into the movies themes.

Strange went to Kamar Taj and learned magic solely so that he could heal his hands and become a doctor again. However, as he eventually discovers, being a sorcerer precludes him from being a doctor Both in a strictly literal sense (if he uses magic to make his hands work again, he won't be able to use it for anything else), and in a more abstract way (being a sorcerer means being part of these epic battles to save the world, which requires a whole different philosophy from what he practiced in medicine). That Hippocratic Oath scene thus adds to the significance of him choosing sorcery over doctoring in the end, that he's leaving behind his old way of living and thinking for something new.

It's also important for what the movie does with the Ancient One. While she's the Big Good of the film, the movie also questions the methods she uses to protect the world. The one that gets the most attention is that she uses the Dark Dimension's power just like the bad guys do, but another is that she recruits Strange into their order without telling him anything about the mystical bad guys he might have to fight. That Strange was put in a situation where he had to kill someone, a situation he did not remotely sign up for, adds credence to the idea that the Ancient One is not entirely to be trusted.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#97672: Mar 7th 2019 at 12:21:55 AM

The movie has its flaws. Chief among them, I think it'd have been better served by opening up with Strange as a wizened, experienced sorceror and giving his origin as interspersed flashbacks; half the fun of the character in the comics is that he's your tour guide to the world of the mystic arts, not a fellow clueless passenger.

That being said I think the climax in the Dark Dimension is one of the strongest finales the MCU has ever done. Maybe even the strongest.

"You will never win."

"No. But I can lose. Again... and again... and again... and again, forever. And that makes you my prisoner."

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
HallowHawk Since: Feb, 2013
#97673: Mar 7th 2019 at 12:40:52 AM

Going to rewatch all MCU movies made so far before Endgame. Will start with First Avenger sans prologue and epilogue, then me and my family will be touching Captain Marvel tonight.

Now, did I get this right for chronological order, sans the Guardians of the Galaxy films:

Captain America: The First Avenger -> Ant-Man prologue -> Captain Marvel -> Iron Man -> The Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2, Thor -> Captain America: The First Avenger prologue and epilogue -> The Avengers -> Iron Man 3, Thor: The Dark World -> Captain America: The Winter Soldier -> The Avengers: Age of Ultron -> Ant-Man -> Captain America: Civil War, Doctor Strange -> Thor: Ragnarok, Black Panther, Spider-Man: Homecoming -> Avengers: Infinity War

Edited by HallowHawk on Mar 8th 2019 at 4:41:18 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#97674: Mar 7th 2019 at 12:45:30 AM

Man do we got a lot of movies.

How old is this franchise?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#97675: Mar 7th 2019 at 12:52:46 AM

The thing with Doctor Strange is that you can take isolated scenes and they are amazing, but the connective tissue is sadly week. I still like it better than the weakest of the MCU movies.

[up][up] First would be the prologues from Thor The Dark world and then the prologues from Thor 1.

Edited by Swanpride on Mar 7th 2019 at 12:54:01 PM


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