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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

MileRun Since: Jan, 2001
#97551: Mar 4th 2019 at 8:43:15 PM

Actually, I feel like tying Ghost's plot and Hank's plot closer together would have helped the movie pretty substantially. AM&TW felt really disjointed, with Ghost's revenge arc, Hank's rescue arc, Scott's house arrest arc, and that one dude's black market arc all pulling it in different directions. If they axed the black market subplot entirely and used that time to dive into Hank's character and his failings (as they relate both to Ava and to Janet), the movie could have been much more cohesive.

I know that's quite a big rewrite, though. I don't think the movie needed that much of a change. I just kinda wish the movie had left out one tiny bit of dialogue.

In the movie as-is, Hank pretty much drops one single line to defend himself against Ghost and Foster's accusation and the movie leaves it at that, and that's what kind of sours it for me. It takes some of the grayness out - Hank is an entirely innocent victim of a desperate person who is only misguidedly lashing out at him. Without that one line, Hank is someone who has truly, grievously wronged Ava in the past, and the film gets to ask the question: "Hank Pym ruined Ava's life, so would the score be settled if the Ghost kills Janet?" (The movie would still answer that question with Janet breaking the cycle by healing Ava, the way she does in the movie anyways, but at least this way there's more thematic consistency.)

Or maybe I just feel that way because Hank is a jackass throughout both movies, but never gets called on it. I dunno. Might just be a bias.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#97552: Mar 4th 2019 at 9:06:00 PM

I'm not interested in the Ultimate editions of the various heroes if those versions are completely unlikable asshats. To go that route risks severe audience apathy as they stop rooting for the good guys.

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 4th 2019 at 12:06:11 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#97553: Mar 4th 2019 at 9:25:08 PM

[up][up]The only person who calls out Hank on being an unlikable jackass is Foster, who claimed that Janet was the only one who could stand Hank. And it does show — we can see in the first movie that Hank has managed to alienate everyone around him.

Scott manages to get along with him (eventually) but then again, Scott manages to get along with just about anyone and everyone. He was able to make friends with his fellow convicts in prison, after all.

Edited by M84 on Mar 5th 2019 at 1:27:02 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#97554: Mar 4th 2019 at 9:29:55 PM

[up][up]The idea was for them to be heroes despite being jerks, but it really doesn’t work for a lot of them, Ultimate Hank Pym in particular.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#97555: Mar 4th 2019 at 9:36:01 PM

The problem with some like Hank is that they go beyond "jerk" and into outright villainous behavior. Ultimate Wolverine was another example.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Monsund Since: Jan, 2001
#97557: Mar 4th 2019 at 11:38:02 PM

As someone who tries to avoid politics here, I'll say personally the claims against Captain Marvel have actually had the opposite of the intended effect and now I plan to see Captain Marvel despite little knowledge of the original comic.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#97558: Mar 5th 2019 at 12:20:33 AM

[up]Good to knowˆˆ Seriously, I even glanced a video where these people were trying to describe those like me who point out the obvious fact they haven't even seen it yet as "whining". There's no reasoning with these people, is there?

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#97559: Mar 5th 2019 at 12:30:33 AM

For the most part, no. It's not really about the movie either. It's about a lot of other things, mostly coming down to wanting the whole world to revolve around them specifically, even at the expense of other people.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#97560: Mar 5th 2019 at 1:46:13 AM

They are like the older sibling throwing a temper tantrum because the new baby is there and it no longer has the undivided attention of everyone...except that in this case the baby has been around for a long time and it is high, high time to grow up.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#97561: Mar 5th 2019 at 2:29:53 AM

[up][up][up][up][up] Link doesn’t work.

Ya know it’s funny that the Ultimates was once considered a best seller that apparently help save Marvel from bankruptcy or something.

Man has the novelty worn off since then. :/

[up][up][up] I sometime call those people & they deflect any critics by calling me a hypocrite engaging in the same whining they do. I do insult them, it’s not like you shouldn't call them crap after all.

Edited by slimcoder on Mar 5th 2019 at 2:31:26 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#97562: Mar 5th 2019 at 4:11:27 AM

For more hilarious Anti-SJW stupidity, I just found out a Youtuber named Nobullshit has pointed out what he thought were SJW moments in Infinity War, of all things. Highlight include Banner's inhability of Hulking Out being compared to erectal disfunction (yes, seriously) and being seen as emasculating the manliest character in the franchise so female characters can do most of the fight, and the operation to remove Vision's gem being compared to a transgender operation (as apparently he is trying to go from robot to human and that's a transgender metaphor for some reason). I should be disgusted, but I am too busy laughing my ass off.

Edited by Theokal3 on Mar 5th 2019 at 1:12:13 PM

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#97563: Mar 5th 2019 at 4:19:37 AM

Huh. Surprised he didn't dislocate a shoulder or something with how far he was reaching.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#97564: Mar 5th 2019 at 4:23:12 AM

he's qualified for the Olympics

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#97565: Mar 5th 2019 at 4:31:58 AM

I've heard of No Bullshit. He seems like an amazingly punchable shitstain of a person.

And I just realized I missed an opportunity for an intentional pun.

Edited by AyyItsMidnight on Mar 5th 2019 at 4:34:54 AM

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#97566: Mar 5th 2019 at 5:10:46 AM

I’m expecting similar stuff in force over the next few days. I mean, half the comments in the Shazam trailer (which looks amazing) are about how Captain Marvel and Brie Larson suck.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#97567: Mar 5th 2019 at 5:11:23 AM

Well, for what is worth, someone who was on the premiere posted a non-review of Captain Marvel and basically said that the only thing which is "feminist" about the movie is the fact that it happens to star a female, and that you have to be really nitpicky to find some sort of "agenda" in it.

Not that this will stop the likes of geeks and gamers...

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#97568: Mar 5th 2019 at 5:17:17 AM

Man, these guys are going to ruin the atmosphere around Shazam. They’re already making Alita’s fanbase unpleasant, I hear.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 5th 2019 at 5:17:59 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#97569: Mar 5th 2019 at 5:18:38 AM

I think Shazam will be fine, too.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#97570: Mar 5th 2019 at 5:39:47 AM

Imagine thinking that Hulk is the manliest character in the MCU when Thor and Captain America are right there.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#97571: Mar 5th 2019 at 5:43:33 AM

Oh yes just because he has the biggest muscles means he’s the manliest.

They’ve forgotten he’s also the most childish.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#97572: Mar 5th 2019 at 5:46:18 AM

Like, there was literally an entire scene establishing how much of a manly beefcake Thor is, and how Thor's manliness is so impressive that the Guardians of the Galaxy collectively swoon and it makes Peter Quill insecure.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#97573: Mar 5th 2019 at 5:54:45 AM

"He's like a pirate had a baby with an angel." [lol][lol]

It's easy to forget, amid the tragedy of the ending, how utterly hilarious Infinity War is.

Anyway, the Mark Ruffalo bit in New York is absolutely played as an impotence joke, and I suppose that would be very triggering to those beta male idiots. Look, here's my violin.

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 5th 2019 at 9:09:12 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#97574: Mar 5th 2019 at 6:16:03 AM

I think the ending of Infinity war is partly so impactful exactly because the movie is so hilarious up to a certain point.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#97575: Mar 5th 2019 at 6:28:10 AM

@Swanpride: Oh God, don't even get me started with Geeks and Gamers. Guys like these are giving reasonable geeks a bad name.

But yeah, if that non-review you heard about Captain Marvel is true, then that pretty much confirms what I have been saying all along: there is NOTHING that is a feminist agenda in that movie, and hopefully that will make all these idiots look ridiculous once the movie comes out.

Also, while I indeed doubt it will actually harm the two movies, I do feel bad for Shazam and Alita, both movies that seem pretty good (I read Alita's manga and absolutely loved it) but get dragged into this crap for no reason.

Oh, also No Bullshit said that while he did think Black Panther was good, it had, I quote, "suspiciously a lot of women among the characters." As if that was a bad thing—' He also complained about Shuri being portrayed as more of a genius than Banner and Vision, down to comparing it to Rey repairing the Millenium Falcon better than Solo in the Force Awakens.

Edited by Theokal3 on Mar 5th 2019 at 3:30:45 PM


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