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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#97526: Mar 4th 2019 at 3:31:06 PM

The new It film was pretty decent and in my opinion, superior to the original film (which had Tim Curry, yes, but everything else was bad).

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#97527: Mar 4th 2019 at 3:33:22 PM

Dawn of the Dead was the last unambiguously good movie Zack Snyder madenote , and what made people think he was some sort of genius director rather than a one-trick pony.

A very good one-trick pony, but a one-trick pony nonetheless.

[up]Adaptations should always be compared to the original work, in my humble opinion.

If It doesn't at least reach the same league of the book, then it is naught but an optional side-material.

Edited by HailMuffins on Mar 4th 2019 at 8:35:33 AM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#97528: Mar 4th 2019 at 3:36:38 PM

[up]I'd definitely say it's in the ballpark, and in some cases improves things. King himself loved it (the man who is notoriously honest about whether he likes adaptations of his work or not).

Edited by Draghinazzo on Mar 4th 2019 at 7:37:13 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#97529: Mar 4th 2019 at 3:38:39 PM

> Dawn of the Dead was the last unambiguously good movie Zack Snyder made

Well that and Watchman says hi

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#97530: Mar 4th 2019 at 3:38:47 PM

[up]x2 Fair enough.

[up]"Watchmen"

Ehhhhh I don't know if I should get into that one, every other time I did it ended ugly.

Edited by HailMuffins on Mar 5th 2019 at 11:40:45 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#97531: Mar 4th 2019 at 3:41:40 PM

This is probably too subject changey, but I think future Ghostbusters reboots and sequels might do well to update a bit. The original Ghostbusters meshed well with things of its time like Indiana Jones: dark gods, unknowable artifacts, etc. And the whole point was to defang those threats for humor. So there should be a bit more defanging the subject of horror movies today - and not just cameos of J-Horror characters or modern slashers and such, but like, them unraveling the plot of The Ring or Hereditary with some detective work and a little proton pack blasting. The IDW comics do stuff like that sometimes (as well as run the gamut of pretty much every supernatural story genre out there, really).

I say this every time I rewatch Ant-Man and the Wasp, but I love the flip they do with Scott and Hope / Hank in this film: where Scott is initially presented as the typical manchild fuck-up and them as the typical smart guys rolling their eyes at his antics. But slowly it becomes clearer that Scott is the most responsible character in the movie - and busting his butt for it - and Hope and Hank are so selfish and wrapped up in themselves that they nearly self-sabotage and ultimately can't pull everything together without him. It's an interesting twist with the expected character types, so I wish the film made it a little more prominent.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 4th 2019 at 3:45:05 AM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#97532: Mar 4th 2019 at 3:41:55 PM

So I think we can all agree that Ghostbusters (2016) failed not because it was a reboot and thus doomed to fail, because, again, there have been plenty of reboots/remakes that have worked. The problem with Ghostbusters (2016) was that it was trying to: 1) remake a beloved film that has a huge nostalgia factor, 2) remake a film that's part of a two-film franchise — if there were more sequels, the reboot probably would have done better since audiences wouldn't have been so shocked there was a reboot, and 3) remaking a horror-comedy in an era where horror-comedies haven't really fared well, aside from a few exceptions (admit it: what's the last horror-comedy you remember doing well?).

The movie didn't flop because it was all-women or because of it's comedy type. Hell, it's basically the same comedy and same two actresses as Bridesmaids and that film made bank.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#97533: Mar 4th 2019 at 3:41:56 PM

Without googling I couldn't make my mind if it was Watchmen or man

stupid brain

[up][up][up][up]

Edited by Ultimatum on Mar 4th 2019 at 11:42:42 AM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#97534: Mar 4th 2019 at 5:05:11 PM

I'll be honest: some of the comedy in Ghostbusters (2016) fell flat for me, because it was employed in a way I don't particularly like in general.

  • The cringe comedy with Erin's social awkwardness is a bit of a personal trigger for me and I have to work really hard to enjoy that sort of thing.
  • Abby plays up the physical comedy, and again, I feel like it's overdone. This isn't a cartoon; people don't get thrown around by a proton pack like they're a rabbit attached to a firehose and then walk away. The original didn't do that, certainly.
  • There is too much reference to the original, and it feels forced.

What I particularly liked:

  • The characters aren't direct copies of the boys.
  • Each has their own arc that pays off, at least somewhat.
  • Chris Hemsworth as Kevin is absolutely hysterical.

It's a movie that I can watch once or twice and then I'm done with it.


Anyway, my son and I, along with our neighbor and his son, are all going to the Saturday matinee of Captain Marvel. I'm going to pointedly ignore this thread if anyone so much as whispers a spoiler.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#97535: Mar 4th 2019 at 5:12:53 PM

@Known Unkown I really like that about Ant-Man.

The fact that Scott despite appearing to be a fuck up actually isn’t one. Despite being a former con he’s genuinly responsible & tries hard to get his shit-together.

While the Pym’s despite appearing intelligent are genuinly horrible people. Both Hank & Hope are selfish jerks who treat Scott horribly because they both have their heads too far up their own assets to care about anyone else problems.

It really makes ya feel for poor Scott.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#97536: Mar 4th 2019 at 5:20:04 PM

BTW, show of hands, who else pairs Ghost with Scott?

...anyone else? No? Just me? All right...

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#97537: Mar 4th 2019 at 5:21:44 PM

I will if they actually show chemistry with each other.

Edited by slimcoder on Mar 4th 2019 at 5:21:56 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#97538: Mar 4th 2019 at 5:27:04 PM

Yeah, it's really funny when you think about just how awful Hank is as a person. I don't really blame Hope for taking after her father. The irony of Scott's life is that he's crap as a thief but really good at being a hero, if he would just recognize that about himself.

There are a few moments where Ghost and Scott have on-screen chemistry, as I recall, but she's too damaged as a person to enter into a relationship. She needs to heal first.

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 4th 2019 at 8:32:46 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#97539: Mar 4th 2019 at 5:33:22 PM

[up]The hope is he figures it out during Endgame. Him and Carol anyway.

So, who’s looking forward to the review embargo lifting?

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#97540: Mar 4th 2019 at 5:38:56 PM

I'm wondering if we're going to get a second Endgame trailer after Captain Marvel launches. It'd be long overdue in a normal release schedule.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
MileRun Since: Jan, 2001
#97541: Mar 4th 2019 at 5:53:21 PM

The thing that annoyed me most about Ant-Man and the Wasp (which I thought to be okay-ish otherwise) was that it made a half-hearted effort to absolve Hank of Ghost's condition.

The movie already did a great job of portraying Ghost as an antagonist driven by desperation, but it could have been so much more interesting if Hank really was (unambiguously) responsible for the accident that destabilized her.

I loved the "sins of the past" themes in the Iron Man movies, and I found it interesting how all the wrongs Tony and Howard had committed in the past came back to haunt Tony after his metanoia. Now imagine if Tony had never changed, and the antagonists were taking vengeance on the unrepentant weapons-manufacturing asshole Tony from the opening of Iron Man 1. It would make you very unsure who to root for. That's what the Ghost/Hank dynamic could have been.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#97542: Mar 4th 2019 at 5:57:18 PM

Well, it seems like both Foster and Pym have serious issues, and neither is completely black or completely white. That's complex morality, when the antagonists and protagonists have legitimate grievances against each other and aren't simply clashing for the sake of having a story.

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 4th 2019 at 8:57:27 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#97543: Mar 4th 2019 at 6:13:54 PM

I keep imagining Ghost, at least in general, as the "comically socially inept / comedic sociopath ally" of the group.

Like, say the plot of the next movie is kicked off by her bringing a problem to the others. I imagine her doing so by literally showing up out of nowhere shouting about how there's no time while Scott is eating cereal or on the can or something or balancing plates or something.

More seriously, my personal pet theory/prediction for Endgame, where the Ant-Man characters are concerned, is that with everyone else dead/snapped Ghost ends up literally the only person left to take care of Cassie. However, Ghost being an incredibly damaged and unstable individual (even moreso due to the whole dying thing) even if she's trying to be better, it results in Cassie growing up to be a criminal after Ghost dies. Scott's primary motivation (if time travel is involved, which is almost certainly will be) will be to undo what happened and ensure Cassie grows up right - and when he succeeds, we'll see her having become Stature / Stinger.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 4th 2019 at 6:14:32 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#97544: Mar 4th 2019 at 6:17:23 PM

I do think they were a little too afraid of making Hank look bad in not having him directly be responsible for Ghost's condition, even if they could have still done it in a way that his pushing away the blame could still be a logical if cold position.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#97545: Mar 4th 2019 at 6:23:26 PM

I prefer Jerk with a Heart of Gold Hank over Comics “you will be forever defined by that time you slapped you wife as part of a bizarre plan and are now forever stereotyped as an abuser” Hank, but that’s just seeing that define him for decades.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#97546: Mar 4th 2019 at 6:26:12 PM

[up] I would, however, like the see MCU Hank struggle with bipolar disorder. It's something he had in the comics and it's something that his daughter (Nadia) is struggling with right now, too. It would interesting if both MCU Hank and Hope had it, too.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#97547: Mar 4th 2019 at 6:27:25 PM

[up]Sure, as long as he’s not painted as abusive. We don’t need Ultimate Hank Pym.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#97549: Mar 4th 2019 at 6:57:07 PM

There's also the fact that making Hank directly responsible for Ava's condition would have forced the plot to be rather different to compensate.

The story isn't really about Hank (at least, not any more than any of the other characters), and a plot like that would have forced them to make it that way, when they wanted to do something more multifaceted. Plus, the way they did it is more in character: Hank is callous and cold, not malicious - his, and Hope's, biggest character flaw is in pushing people away needlessly and not caring about the consequences (to himself at times, but mostly to others), which is exactly what happened with Ava's family.

So instead, they went with Hank being more or less responsible but in denial about it, and Ava not specifically being out for revenge as much as survival.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 4th 2019 at 7:00:08 AM

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#97550: Mar 4th 2019 at 7:44:38 PM

Re last page's reboot talk:

I genuinely enjoyed the latest Robocop, Dredd, and Power Rangers, to my own surprise. In fact, I wished I'd seen Power Rangers in theaters, so I could've helped its buzz. It was quite good.

Mad Max: Fury Road is definitively a sequel. And very good. James Bond is a bad comparison, as it's full of reboots and new actors in the same continuities.


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