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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#97451: Mar 3rd 2019 at 11:45:37 AM

Marvel is like Pixar in its heyday: it'll take several failures before their movies ever get into the red.

And as someone brought it up: while I'm not the biggest Fury Road fan (I think it's fun, but not much in the way of depth), I do greatly respect that movie for proving once and for all that Rated M for Manly movies need not be sausage fests with a whiff of misogyny to them, so hats off.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#97452: Mar 3rd 2019 at 11:47:38 AM

Yeah, I'm sure Captain Marvel was bound to catch some flak just for having a woman in it, but it was Brie Larson's past comments and request for a more diverse pool of journalists that upset the usual misogynist crowd and caused the film to be The Worst Thing Ever(tm). This is in spite of the fact that the film itself is very unlikely to be "political" in the sense that many of them are implying.

I mean, I'm not particularly interested in the film myself, but it's whatever you know? It's not like there aren't numerous other films coming out every year I can watch instead. The world doesn't exclusively revolve around me or what I care about. It's cool to finally get a female-led film, even if it took forever.

Another thing that's kind of annoying is that any media that attempts to be more diverse is automatically held to a much higher standard. Films don't need to be high art or perfect to justify their existence, especially if they're providing something like representation for minority people. Even if Captain Marvel ends up being one of the weaker MCU films, it doesn't mean that it doesn't deserve to exist.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#97453: Mar 3rd 2019 at 11:51:34 AM

Unfortunately, it does.

Movies starring minorities and women, or anything without a white male straight lead, will be held as a validation that such movies don't make movey/can make money, but not on their own merits.

Which sucks, true, but until enough of these films are successful that the greater audience is willing to judge them on their own merits, rather than as the representative of whatever minority they happen to cast, it's just not going away.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#97454: Mar 3rd 2019 at 3:27:43 PM

A bit more as to what the trolls are trying to accomplish:

I was watching the 10 Years Later companion piece to City of God, and it featured a bit of a Brazilian protest song with the (translated) lyrics: "Peace without a voice is not peace, it is fear."

Basically, people currently in positions of power, or who want to believe that they are entitled to relative power over minorities, want to silence the voice of those minorities. If you ignore the concerns of discrimination, or attempt to quiet them when they are raised, it's easier to pretend it isn't a problem for some, or that others don't benefit from it. When inequality is not confronted, or when that confrontation is silenced, the inequality perpetuates.

lvthn13 Since: Dec, 2009
#97455: Mar 3rd 2019 at 3:35:10 PM

Oh hey, we have an entire trope that pretty well sums up my reaction to this:

All Issues Are Political Issues

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#97456: Mar 3rd 2019 at 4:37:48 PM

I think they would have attacked Captain Marvel anyway, though Brie Larson was naturally a particularly draw too, since she is heavily involved in the Me too movement and openly feminist. And that she actually said something they could misconstrue into "she hates white men" was kind of a gift.

All this said, I think the main reason why it blow up so much is a mixture of timing and a lack of, well, cover. What I mean with timing: Due to the close connection with Endgame, Captain Marvel is the pretty much the next highly prolific property after Star Wars to attack. Speaking of Star Wars, there is a little bit of an outrage lull for now...not a lot, but there isn't even a first trailer to be outraged about yet.

On top of this, they are kind of forced to double down now, aren't they? As I said, they had nothing to hide behind this time around. If the movie is successful, well reviewed and the same is true for Avengers Endgame, they will look like absolute idiots. So they now have to build conspiracy theories. Otherwise they would be forced to admit that they are wrong.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#97457: Mar 3rd 2019 at 4:42:21 PM

They did this same thing with Black Panther.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#97458: Mar 3rd 2019 at 4:46:49 PM

Yeah, but there they managed to pretend that they didn't do what they clearly did. They now have the gall to use Black Panther as an example how you make promotions without "throwing diversity in your face".

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#97459: Mar 3rd 2019 at 4:50:24 PM

I remember when they bandied around the argument that BP was a pro far-right movie, because it had a nationalistic, isolationist ethnostate. Ignoring how the whole point of the movie was that this attitude was wrong and causes the entire conflict in the film.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#97460: Mar 3rd 2019 at 4:57:01 PM

Which is, in turn, the same kind of outrageous double-think that somehow allows them to be pissed off at the new Star Wars films for "introducing" an anti-authoritarianist bias into Star Wars.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
lvthn13 Since: Dec, 2009
#97461: Mar 3rd 2019 at 5:17:41 PM

I remember when they bandied around the argument that BP was a pro far-right movie, because it had a nationalistic, isolationist ethnostate. Ignoring how the whole point of the movie was that this attitude was wrong and causes the entire conflict in the film.

It has to be admitted that the movie offers a pretty broken aesop in this regard. Wakanda's borders remain closed to all outsiders except the personal guests of T'Challa, and they even have a "wall" in the form of cloaking and an energy shield.

Mario1995 The Dishonorable from Atlanta Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Dishonorable
#97462: Mar 3rd 2019 at 5:20:55 PM

I'm surprised that none of the analysis of the Captain Marvel "backlash" is taking into the probability that some of the trolls may lash out in violent or destructive ways.

We literally saw that with how the trolls harassed and violated Lesile Jones after the female Ghostbusters movie. There's reason to believe that they'll do it to Larson or anyone associated with the movie.

And that's not even getting into the possibility that some of these trolls may have guns.

"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#97463: Mar 3rd 2019 at 5:39:45 PM

While those idiots took the argument with bad faith, wakanda does minds have issue because is present as utópic idea of a true or itself unapologetic black nation free of colonization, it also attach itself to other ideas like monarchy, isolation as good thing from most part and the bad guy being the one who actually suffer all the injustice and is the privileged guy work to stop it.

Like, I like wakanda but is hard not to see as the nation that nearly to imperialistic because one dude beat the other almost to death.

Now with cap....my issue is this movie turn to be another safe and marvel made origin story they got so used to, would that be consider a failure?

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#97464: Mar 3rd 2019 at 5:52:17 PM

Come to think of it, wasn't there similar backlash from bigots when Thor came out because Idris Elba was cast as Heimdall? I recall there were a few people crying foul, but it died out once the film actually came out. Then again, this was before organized hate campaigns were a thing, Heimdall was only a supporting character, and 2011 was a much different place than where we are today.

Mario1995 The Dishonorable from Atlanta Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Dishonorable
#97465: Mar 3rd 2019 at 5:58:00 PM

[up]Probably because they didn't flip his gender. Usually that's when the trolls get nastier.

"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#97466: Mar 3rd 2019 at 6:21:41 PM

Yes, there were organized hate campaigns against Idris Elba's casting.

I vividly remember those, because the conversation always centered around some reference to Heimdall being "the Whitest God" or some shit in the mythology.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#97467: Mar 3rd 2019 at 6:25:15 PM

This is in spite of the fact that the film itself is very unlikely to be "political" in the sense that many of them are implying.

The reaction on Twitter that summed it up to me was someone saying that everything about CM makes it look like a standard action movie and even one with a pro-military message like Top Gun, and yet somehow in spite of that people are acting like it's extreme leftist propaganda.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#97468: Mar 3rd 2019 at 6:25:58 PM

The trolls already are destructive...apparently Zachary Levi has been harassed with texts and crank calls since he requested to stop the attacks against Marvel's Captain Marvel.

This could end very, very badly.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#97469: Mar 3rd 2019 at 6:26:29 PM

If they suddenly remade Top Gun with women, with nothing else different, these people would still complain.

Despite the fact that such a reboot sounds, frankly, awesome.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#97470: Mar 3rd 2019 at 6:31:15 PM

They all went bat shit crazy over the one scene in which Carol's friend says to her "got to show those boys how we do it" in the superbowl trailer. Because this is apparently putting down men to make females look good.

I mean...really? That is such a typical top gun line. Aren't woman allowed to be confident in their abilities?

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#97471: Mar 3rd 2019 at 7:09:31 PM

It's because of misandry.

Edited by alliterator on Mar 3rd 2019 at 7:09:52 AM

MedusaStone Since: Jan, 2015
#97472: Mar 3rd 2019 at 7:18:29 PM

[up][up] In a word: no. No, women are not allowed to be confidant in their abilities; there is no 'confidant', women with the slightest amount of pride in anything they do are 'arrogant', 'stuck-up', 'bitches', and any other slur you can come up with. At least, according to the Internet trolls causing all the trouble.

lvthn13 Since: Dec, 2009
#97473: Mar 3rd 2019 at 7:25:44 PM

Everyone sounds so excited to see it, what it all the grousing about what trolls are doing.

I think I'm going to check out. I'd rather just enjoy the movie than think about the million ways in which people are assholes and ruin everything.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#97474: Mar 3rd 2019 at 8:16:04 PM

Let's not compare which is worse between sexism or white supremacy.

As for the people lashing out violently, they already do. Not being able to leave bad film reviews isn't going to change that.

And as was stated above, there was a vocal backlash to Idris Elba's casting, specifically because he was black.

[up][up][up]Does that all exist as one gif? Because that's definitely saveable.
Also, wooooow, proving itself right. -8 votes, and one commenter labeled it "propaganda intended to silence men." Fucking lol.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Mar 3rd 2019 at 10:18:53 AM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#97475: Mar 3rd 2019 at 8:20:33 PM

[up] I couldn't find the entire thing in one gif, but here's the complete video.

Edited by alliterator on Mar 3rd 2019 at 8:21:54 AM


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