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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#97276: Feb 28th 2019 at 11:00:32 AM

At least in the United States, "I don't want politics" is often code for "I don't want anything that makes me feel even the minimum amount of discomfort about the existence of hardship for people other than me." I envy those cultures that don't have that code.

And then, some fanbases are just entitled garbage.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#97277: Feb 28th 2019 at 11:02:46 AM

[up][up]I'm happy that Civil War got Ms. Moneymaker and other stunt doubles at least a little bit of face time. Their work is sometimes overlooked.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#97278: Feb 28th 2019 at 11:44:21 AM

Just to get an idea how often those attacks against diverse movies have happened in the last years:

https://weminoredinfilm.com/2019/02/28/rottentomatoes-vs-the-internet-about-damn-time-they-took-action/

The list is longer than I thought. Some of those movies weren't even on my radar, simply because I wasn't particularly interested.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#97279: Feb 28th 2019 at 1:40:45 PM

Wander: you shouldn't, because in other is just means "stupid SJW Lol!"

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Lymantria Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph from Toronto Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
#97280: Feb 28th 2019 at 2:49:09 PM

What are these people even trying to accomplish?

And no, Marvel never paid Rotten Tomatoes to give the DCEU films bad reviews. The people who say that probably think global warming and the moon landing are hoaxes. (I'm half-joking).

Join the Five-Man Band cleanup project!
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#97281: Feb 28th 2019 at 2:58:35 PM

[up]Scare people off.

Random Joe casual just had a hard day at work, is thinking about taking his girlfriend to a movie. Captain Marvel is coming out and Marvel movies are usually fun, right? Then you see the scores. Immediately recoiling in terror. Yeah, maybe you should do something else.

That’s the goal.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#97282: Feb 28th 2019 at 3:30:22 PM

Considering the sheet star power of the Marvel-brand (comparable to Pixar in its heyday), how much can that sort of tactic be said to even work anyway, long-term?

Certainly didn't put any dents in Black Panther's box office.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#97283: Feb 28th 2019 at 3:35:41 PM

It might not affect the box office for Marvel but it does encourage further harassment and fearmongering.

Just before Black Panther's release there was this campaign where white users would post bloody pictures claiming they were beaten up for buying tickets while white. Thankfully it was rapidly smothered as a hoax, but imagine if it had taken off and news sites started reporting it.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#97284: Feb 28th 2019 at 3:40:03 PM

If memory serves, it was killed as a hoax so quickly because a bunch of those pictures were on the top page of Google images. If they decide to be smarter/less cowardly/less stupid this time, it would be much harder to prove wrong. For example, if they literally got someone to beat them up beforehand, or they were even semi-competent at violence make-up.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#97285: Feb 28th 2019 at 3:47:04 PM

The other big problem is that it really poisons the well for any kind of nuanced discussion of a film's merits or flaws.

For instance, a lot of the discourse from when TFA premiered was very toxic about Rey and had the rancid smell of misogyny and gatekeeping all over it. This made it more difficult and sensitive for people who may have had criticisms that maybe were worth at least thinking about (such as "Rey feels too powerful that it kills the tension of the movie") to be able to talk about the film. Personally I don't think it's a big deal to make the effort to show that you're coming from a place of good faith, but it does create a very tiresome environment to talk about these films in.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#97286: Feb 28th 2019 at 4:35:52 PM

And no, Marvel never paid Rotten Tomatoes to give the DCEU films bad reviews. The people who say that probably think global warming and the moon landing are hoaxes. (I'm half-joking).

Uhm, excuse you, but the moon landing was a hoax. They just had Stanley Kubrick film it.

Authentic perfectionist that he was, he had the actors flown to the moon to film the hoax on-site.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
lvthn13 Since: Dec, 2009
#97287: Feb 28th 2019 at 4:59:37 PM

"I don't want politics" is often code for "I don't want anything that makes me feel even the minimum amount of discomfort about the existence of hardship for people other than me."

If you genuinely wished to seek this out, why would you choose a fictional movie to experience it?

Not like there's a shortage of non-fiction, and unlike a fantasy movie, the things you learn will actually apply to the real world.

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#97288: Feb 28th 2019 at 5:26:27 PM

[up] I think the point being made is that people shouldn't be hypersensitive to the existence of problems people different then them face being acknowledged in fiction.

But honestly my answer to your question would be "why not?". I like fiction and I like stories about overcoming hardships, even if they aren't the same as my hardships.

lvthn13 Since: Dec, 2009
#97289: Feb 28th 2019 at 5:34:01 PM

The obvious reason "why not" is because the same thing happens as has happened with many other topics, documented here on tvtropes: it becomes "Hollywoodized" and the watered down bullshit version becomes the commonly accepted version of reality.

Obviously, fiction usually must include some conflict and element of strife. And to a certain degree, reality subtext makes perfect sense in film. But it's a careful balancing act, and the danger is that it not only becomes anvilicious, but eye-rollingly unrealistic.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#97290: Feb 28th 2019 at 6:55:51 PM

Went to Twitter to look up pics of the Captain Marvel premiere, aaaaand there are fanboys comparing pictures of her meeting little girl fans with pics of Hitler.

...I swear, they can’t stand seeing anyone besides themselves be happy.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Feb 28th 2019 at 6:59:21 AM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#97291: Feb 28th 2019 at 7:01:18 PM

Obviously, fiction usually must include some conflict and element of strife. And to a certain degree, reality subtext makes perfect sense in film. But it's a careful balancing act, and the danger is that it not only becomes anvilicious, but eye-rollingly unrealistic.
That's kind of the point: even stories where the "politics" are handled well are dismissed by those who don't want anything other than escapism. To some people, a superhero movie is a male power fantasy and anything that gets in the way of that male power fantasy should thus be eliminated.

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#97292: Feb 28th 2019 at 7:03:18 PM

[up][up]I mean, how happy are they really if they spend their lives doing shit like this?

Edited by Pseudopartition on Mar 1st 2019 at 6:24:37 AM

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#97293: Feb 28th 2019 at 7:08:50 PM

"Ignorance is bliss" quite literally applies for some people.

Then there's the assholes who just like seeing whoever they hate being put down. It's not just straight, white, men, btw.

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#97294: Feb 28th 2019 at 7:17:49 PM

[up]x5 The only point I'm trying to make is that there is a subset of the audience that will treat any reference whatsoever to real world problems faced by people different then them as being anviliously political, regardless of it's actual execution.

And I've seen plenty of cases (usually in regards to LGBT characters) where a character simply existing is enough to set off a firestorm of accusations of the writers politicizing their work.

Edited by Falrinn on Feb 28th 2019 at 10:18:11 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#97295: Feb 28th 2019 at 7:28:18 PM

I’ll tell ya something funny.

I’ve seen people actually say people wanted Mar-Vell on the big screen.

To that I say HA! Mar-Vell’s been dead decades. Nobody gives a flying rats about Mar-Vell. There’s been 7 Captain Marvel’s over the course of 50 years & Mar-Vell’s been dead for all of it barring short arcs or events where he gets revived only to die when it’s over.

The rest of the Marvel’s are obscure as fuck. Like who the fuck is Genis-Vell? Cause he’s the 3rd Captain Marvel & I’ve heard jack shit about him.

I know Monica & Phyla-Vell, the 2nd & 4th Captain Marvel & Noh-Varr the 6th to a lesser degree.

But that’s the thing, out of the 7 Captain Marvel’s I can easily name the 3 women off the top of the my head. The 4 men, zilch & I can only sorta name Noh-Varr simply because of his association to the Young Avengers, not about anything relating to the character himself.

Edited by slimcoder on Feb 28th 2019 at 8:05:06 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#97296: Feb 28th 2019 at 8:04:33 PM

I only really know three things about Mar-Vell:

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#97297: Feb 28th 2019 at 8:11:59 PM

And I've seen plenty of cases (usually in regards to LGBT characters) where a character simply existing is enough to set off a firestorm of accusations of the writers politicizing their work.

Star Trek Beyond got some of that with the reveal that Sulu was gay, with a husband and a daughter. It was a two second scene where he greeted his family at the dock, they didn't even kiss, but some idiots still screamed about it "shoving diversity down our throats."

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#97298: Feb 28th 2019 at 8:41:16 PM

Mar-Vell is one of the few superheroes to die and stay dead — now, we can chalk this up to the fact that The Death of Captain Marvel is probably his most famous story, but the real reason is probably much simpler than that: Mar-Vell was boring. He was just...kind of there. And once he died and the name passed on to Monica, well, she wasn't boring. In fact, all of the Captain Marvels after Mar-Vell were much more interesting than Mar-Vell was:

  • Monica Rambeau: first female Captain Marvel and first female leader of the Avengers.
  • Genis-Vell: Mar-Vell's son who once went completely bugnuts crazy and destroyed and recreated the universe.
  • Phyla-Vell: was accidentally created by Genis-Vell when he recreated the universe, went on to be the second female Captain Marvel, in a lesbian relationship with Moondragon, and also an avatar of Oblivion.
  • Khn'nr: a Skrull who impersonated Mar-Vell so well that he ended up betraying his own species.
  • Noh-Varr: formerly Marvel Boy, a Kree soldier from an alternate universe who ended up fighting a mad scientist and sentient corporation and also spelled out the words "FUCK YOU" in fire.
  • Carol Danvers: well, she was always more interesting than Mar-Vell was, but here goes: she's a twice-amnesiac Air Force Colonel that was accidentally given Kree DNA/experimented on by the Brood/her mother was a Kree soldier which ended up with her being able to punch holes in the sky. She's also an alcoholic whose rock bottom was when she got drunk and tried to fly to the moon and ended up almost suffocating and crashing.

Now, as you can see, compared to all of that, the most interesting thing about Mar-Vell was...well, that he died of cancer.

Edited by alliterator on Feb 28th 2019 at 8:42:22 AM

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#97299: Feb 28th 2019 at 9:37:29 PM

He's still more interesting than Thomas & Martha Wayne, and they've gotten the big screen treatment at least four or five times now.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#97300: Feb 28th 2019 at 9:38:54 PM

For 30-60 seconds before they die [lol]


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