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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#97226: Feb 27th 2019 at 5:55:01 PM

I wasn't even alive back then.
You young whippersnappers don't know how good you got it. I used to go to Blockbuster in order to get VHS tapes of Power Rangers, dammit! And they were always sold out!

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#97227: Feb 27th 2019 at 6:26:14 PM

I mean, I used to go to Blockbusters for VHS's, too, when I was a kid with my mom.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#97228: Feb 27th 2019 at 6:27:11 PM

I remembered being annoyed with Blockbuster due to their limited stock.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#97229: Feb 27th 2019 at 7:02:04 PM

One Blockbuster in my city was replaced with a Hollywood Video and then a Wells Fargo. The other has been empty for years.

Weirdly, though, the indie video rental store a few miles away has still been going strong since 2003.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Feb 27th 2019 at 7:02:35 AM

lvthn13 Since: Dec, 2009
#97230: Feb 27th 2019 at 7:43:40 PM

Heh. I remember renting Betamax tapes from the local drugstore.

I also remember not having any form of home video media, unless of course you went to the trouble of setting up a projector room and buying actual reels.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#97231: Feb 27th 2019 at 9:25:01 PM

Anyone else enjoy the song they put over the Black Panther credits? [lol]

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#97232: Feb 27th 2019 at 10:10:23 PM

Considering how Nick Fury contacted Carol Danvers at the end of Infinity War, this was pretty much inevitable.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#97233: Feb 27th 2019 at 10:19:57 PM

Ah, Brie returns to her Disney Channel roots. evil grin

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#97234: Feb 27th 2019 at 10:49:41 PM

sorry, but let's go back to the Captain Marvel thing, because as usual, her quote was cut short and mentioned without context. So, for time line purposes:

First grumbles regarding the case of Captain Marvel happened pretty much immediately after Brie Larson got cast. Some were simply the "why didn't they cast x" complains, but from the get go a lot of the complains were more, well, personal. See Brie Larson happens to be very outspoken in the Me too movement due to her work with and for survivors of sexual assault. Basically she is quite an activist. Those complains didn't really get any traction first, though, partly because there was nobody really paying attention to Captain Marvel.

In June 2018, Brie Larson was honoured at the Women In Film 2018 Crystal + Lucy Awards. what the award is about, well, the clue is in the name. She said the following:

"I don’t need a 40-year-old white dude to tell me what didn’t work about A Wrinkle in Time. It wasn’t made for him! I want to know what it meant to women of color, biracial women, to teen women of Color … Am I saying I hate white dudes? No, I am not. What I am saying is if you make a movie that is a love letter to women of color, there is an insanely low chance a woman of color will have a chance to see your movie, and review your movie.

For a little bit of background, the Monday beforehand the University of Southern California's Annenberg Inclusion Initiative had found that nearly 80% of the firm critics who reviewed 2017 box office hits were male. And, as Brie Larson Pointed out:

"It really sucks that reviews matter – but reviews matter. Good reviews out of festivals give small, independent films a fighting chance to be bought and seen. Good reviews help films gross money, good reviews slingshot films into awards contenders. A good review can change your life. It changed mine."

So, to summarize, she is on an award show which is about more diversity in the movie business and she is talking about the high number of white male reviewers because the fact that most reviewers are white and male serves as some sort of gate-keeping in the industry, since they effectively decide which movie gets which kind of attention.

The result of this little speech were countless clickbait article and videos with the title: "Brie Larson hates white men".

Though, frankly, part of the reason why some people took Captain Marvel in their Crosshairs is this quote from Kevin Feige:

"All of the Marvel characters have flaws to them, all of them have a deep humanity to them. With Captain Marvel, she is as powerful a character as we've ever put in a movie. Her powers are off the charts, and when she's introduced, she will be by far the strongest character we've ever had. It's important, then, to counterbalance that with someone who feels real. She needs to have a humanity to tap into, and Brie can do that....With Captain Marvel, there's so much potential in the comics and there have been so many incarnations of her powers and the characters who've had that mantle that we've been focusing in on exactly how do we tell her origin. How does it fit into the cosmic side of our universe? How does it fit into what we're doing with the next Avengers movies?"

Somehow some people took this as "Captain Marvel will come in Avengers:Endgame, take over the story and destroy Thanos on her own." I am not quite sure how you can make that jump unless the word "powerful character" in connection with a female character kills your brain cells.

Anyway, the first poster get released and there were immediately a lot of complains from the same direction because Captain Marvel "Doesn't smile". Brie Larson shared an Ironman poster on twitter which was photoshopped so that RDJ had a smile, to demonstrate how idiotic this complain was. (Honestly, Since when do Superheroes smile on their posters? I can't think of a single one in which the hero does anything but staring seriously out of the poster.

Then the first trailer dropped and for reasons I don't quite get the reaction was a little bit lukewarm. But said "eh" reaction was taken as confirmation that Captain Marvel will fail. There are channels which made daily videos about this topic and this last months, they really have stepped it up and now make multiple videos daily about how Captain Marvel will suck, and how going "woke" will destroy the MCU.

There are videos about the seize of their butt (because Marvel was honest enough to reveal that they used a body double for her), her training scheme and every time Brie Larson opens her mouth, they find something to be offended about. When she clarifies that no, she doesn't hate white man at all, they simply say "Disney just wants to do damage control" or, even more disgusting "why does she feel to clarify this if she doesn't really feel that way?" (because you numb nuts have spread the idea all over the internet in an exercise of fake outrage).

A LOT of this comes from far-right clickbait channels who make a living out of raging against so called SJW. And it has worked, btw, they got the attention they wanted and make a killing out of their hatred. And a lot of people there are actually believing that Brie Larson hates White men, even though she never said that. John Campea had a rant about this after Zach Levy felt the need to post a video telling people they should stop hating on Captain Marvel "on his behalf" - though I am not sure if he is aware that this isn't about Marvel vs DC. This is the "Furiosa ruins Mad Max" crowd which managed to grow a following on the back of Ghostbusters and Star Wars.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#97235: Feb 27th 2019 at 11:35:33 PM

A Wrinkle in Time still seems like not a great example to use to make her point.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#97236: Feb 28th 2019 at 12:50:09 AM

It simply was the movie which just got released to extremely mixed reviews. Sure, she could have said "Black Panther" instead or worded it completely differently, but isn't the important thing here is that she has point and that the venue she chose was the right place to make that point?

And I applaud her for sticking to her guns and requesting that her own press tour would be as diverse as possible. Basically they ask the publishers to send someone who is not a white male if possible (emphasis on "if possible") and she went out of her way to ensure that one of her interviews got to a Wo C in a wheelchair.

Naturally that lead to whining about her excluding white males. Which is BS. There are so many press tours each year, there is ample opportunity for every reviewer in the country to visit at least one of them. The problem is that a lot of them currently don't get the opportunity, because the publishers always send the same people. And naturally nobody is stopped from writing a review.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#97237: Feb 28th 2019 at 1:18:13 AM

The problem with using A Wrinkle in Time for her example is that it's a kids' movie. No professional film critic, regardless of their race or gender, is going to be part of its target audience, because they're adults reviewing a movie for children.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#97238: Feb 28th 2019 at 2:58:59 AM

It was also a movie made by a Wo C director which addressed the feelings a lot of young black females have to deal with...and I say this as someone who didn't like the approach said director took to the source material AT ALL!!! It was fated to be a terrible adaptation from the get go, but it if said director made the point she wanted is really not for white old men to decide.

Plus, all this is just a distraction. Even if you think that Brie Larson worded it badly or used or bad example or whatever, she has clarified multiple times since then what didn't need to be clarified in the first place. She never said "I hate white man". And that's it! that is all we need to know to judge this stupid "controversy".

BattleRaizer from Realm of Khorne Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#97239: Feb 28th 2019 at 3:47:09 AM

I think the best move nowaday promote a movie is not bringing politic into it, especially before the movie release. Why not let the viewers decided for themselves the movie message? Most people watch superhero movies to escape reality, they don't want to watch something that full of real life politic cover it even before it release.

E.T technically is a Isekai movie
AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#97240: Feb 28th 2019 at 3:52:25 AM

I mean, no work of fiction out there is ever truly 100% apolitical.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
BattleRaizer from Realm of Khorne Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#97241: Feb 28th 2019 at 3:55:36 AM

I know, most fiction story reflect their author political view, especially comic book. I just said that people should stop tell the viewers how they should feel when watching a movie and let the viewers decided for themselves.

E.T technically is a Isekai movie
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#97242: Feb 28th 2019 at 4:02:45 AM

[up][up][up]

[up][up]

Both of these statements are accurate even though they seem mutually exclusive.

It used to be easier to make a movie that didn't feel political to anyone outside the fringes, but even that is becoming increasingly difficult and the voices of the fringes has been increasingly amplified.

And with Captain Marvel simply choosing to make a female-led movie in a genre that is traditionally male-led is going to be seen by some as political by default.

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#97243: Feb 28th 2019 at 4:06:51 AM

[up][up]Larson isn't telling people how to feel about the movie, though? She's basically saying "we should have more perspectives in mainstream film criticism."

BattleRaizer from Realm of Khorne Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#97244: Feb 28th 2019 at 4:07:23 AM

I saw no one bat a eyelid when Wonder Woman come out.( except for those against Gal Gadot because of her nationality)

E.T technically is a Isekai movie
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#97245: Feb 28th 2019 at 4:09:05 AM

You didn't look hard enough, because corners of the Internet were definitely freaking out.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#97246: Feb 28th 2019 at 4:12:11 AM

Nearly all works of fiction express some point(s) of view about something in our world; this is an inevitable and indeed important feature of storytelling. They implicitly hold some values in regard while stating that some other values are wrong. If the hero has a family, that means families are important. If the hero is a loner, the work is making a statement about our need for relationships.

If the hero is a female, the work is making a statement that women can be heroes. The only reason we see this as unusual is that it's so rare, relatively speaking. Nobody finds the idea of a male superhero upsetting because it's what we see every day. It's not controversial. Portraying a female superhero in a leading role, therefore, is inherently a political statement that is going to ruffle some feathers regardless of anything the actor says or does.

The only thing I regret about the manufactured controversy surrounding Brie Larson is that I am going to feel at least a little nervous while watching the film that some members of the audience might be among the minority of dickheads that are raising the fuss, and that I can't punch them in the face without getting in trouble.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 28th 2019 at 7:13:19 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
BattleRaizer from Realm of Khorne Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#97247: Feb 28th 2019 at 4:20:22 AM

I guess this is a culture thing. Most people in my country care even less about whether male or female gonna play a super hero( i browse most of my country movie forum and they only discuss how this gonna play into Infinity War ).

E.T technically is a Isekai movie
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#97248: Feb 28th 2019 at 4:21:19 AM

Nobody made Captain Marvel "political" except the people who make a fuss around it because they are paranoid about the possibility that the next leader of the Avengers might be female.

Gender aside, Marvel has clearly decided that the Kree vs Skull stories are the perfect next backdrop for the MCU after Infinity war. They are right, btw., especially once you consider that other possibilities were still owned by Fox when those decisions were made. Creatively it makes absolute sense to put the character which was altered by the Kree into the centre of the story, especially since said character is pretty much the next in line in terms of name recognition after the ones which already have been adapted. That said character also happens to be female, well, great bonus there.

[up] It is easy "not to care" when what you see on screen is constantly someone who represents you. It's different when you wait decades just for a Wonder Woman movie. White males have an easy time to "not care", and frankly, in a way they shouldn't, because they got plenty of representation. But obviously there are people who feel something is taken away from them, or "ruined" just because females are let into the club house.

Edited by Swanpride on Feb 28th 2019 at 4:32:33 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#97249: Feb 28th 2019 at 4:23:29 AM

[up][up] I envy your culture then.

Becuase we have a lot of people here offended by the mere existance of women.

Just look at Star Wars. Some guy actually made a version of The Last Jedi that cut out every female character.

Like literally every shot or role played by a woman removed just because "women ruin things" I guess.

Edited by slimcoder on Feb 28th 2019 at 4:23:54 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
BattleRaizer from Realm of Khorne Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#97250: Feb 28th 2019 at 4:30:28 AM

Well ... we was a Matriarch society in the past and most of our folk lore center around women so i guess i give us a difference perspective on the role of woman. Plus we don't have a long cinematic history so we have nothing to compare to.

If they want to cut all female from Star War guess we have to cut Leia and Ahsoka too.

Edited by BattleRaizer on Feb 28th 2019 at 7:31:12 PM

E.T technically is a Isekai movie

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