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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#97126: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:07:48 PM

The Venn Diagram of those saying “how dare Brie Larson say something political” and “separate art from the creepy dude artist” is a circle.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Feb 27th 2019 at 12:08:19 PM

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#97127: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:08:32 PM

I dunno, this is barely above It's Not Supposed to Win Oscars: it's a big budgeted adventure flick based on a (I assume) well-known children's book, these movies aren't made to a specific audience alone, it isn't a indie flick.

And even then, Black Panther and Get Out were both made very much with a black perspective in mind, and people from all across the racial spectrum enjoyed those movies and took part on the discussion, so personally, her statement feels like a deflection.

That said, I very much agree with the sentiment that white mennote  are the dominant voice when it comes to media debates and it is something that needs changing.

Edited by HailMuffins on Feb 27th 2019 at 5:11:42 PM

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#97128: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:08:39 PM

I mean, I expect the film itself to be mostly apolitical, but people cannot do that and expect it to be viewed as a positive. That’s why you have people claiming conspiracy theory over Black Panther and the like. There’s a difference between a different perspective and preaching “Political a candidate 2020!” Too many people want the latter and get surprised when ticket sales dry up.

Edited by Beatman1 on Feb 27th 2019 at 3:10:42 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#97129: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:09:36 PM

I personally view it as a positive, and whether other people do makes for a handy litmus test about whether we'd get along in person.

Heck, if you'd deprive yourself of enjoying a film based on a disagreement like this, it's entirely your loss.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 27th 2019 at 3:10:45 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#97130: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:10:51 PM

Wrinkle in Time might be merely an okay-ish film, but I think the point about how mostly white middle age male critics are the ones who get to determine what films are worthwhile or not is a valid one. Even if Wrinke in Time isn't that great, women of color might still be able to get something out of it.

lvthn13 Since: Dec, 2009
#97131: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:11:08 PM

Fighteer, you're evidently confusing me with someone else. Point out where I conflate her opinion with the film (I provide several sentences that refute exactly that)? Point out where I say I'm offended?

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#97132: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:11:08 PM

Huh imagine what will happen when they bring in Monica Rambeu.

[up][up] I can more or less understand her words. She desires a change of perspective.

It be good to learn from a variety of people why it didn’t work instead of just one primary group.

Edited by slimcoder on Feb 27th 2019 at 12:12:43 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#97133: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:12:00 PM

[up][up]Depends what is a positive. As several female reviewers pointed out in said article, they would often get screamed at by comic book geeks because the film “wasn’t for them”. Going “This isn’t for you” doesn’t work, compared to “I want to hear more unique voices, etc.”

I guess my point is, phrasing.

[up]Nextwave?

Edited by Beatman1 on Feb 27th 2019 at 3:12:51 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#97134: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:12:19 PM

This isn't the thread about A Wrinkle in Time, but personally I found its messaging to be obvious, saccharine, and oversold. That said, I am not a mixed-race, female tween who is extremely self-conscious about her identity and looking for something to give her some validation.

By contrast, I am extremely excited about Captain Marvel both for being a superhero movie that looks like a great time, and for being a progressive work that advances the empowerment of women in Hollywood.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 27th 2019 at 3:13:47 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#97135: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:12:39 PM

[up]x3 The alt-righters will have a meltdown and it will be glorious.

Edited by HailMuffins on Feb 27th 2019 at 5:14:17 PM

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#97136: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:14:01 PM

[up][up]And that’s fine, but if you’re writing a review and someone yells “this isn’t for you, how dare you criticize it!” it’s the same damn thing as someone yelling at a female journalist for giving a comic book movie a bad review.

Her message is fine, more perspectives on film. But the phrasing was...really poorly done.

Edited by Beatman1 on Feb 27th 2019 at 3:16:58 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#97137: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:15:44 PM

[up][up] I can only imagine their reactions to an Ultimates movie.

That team stars both some of the most powerful & intelligent characters in the entire MU.

A team of powerhouse geniuses that includes Black Panther, Monica, Blue Marvel, & America Chavez, all people of color.

Edited by slimcoder on Feb 27th 2019 at 12:16:00 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#97138: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:17:48 PM

[up]Not the Ultimate version of the Avengers? Have I mentioned comics are confusing?

Personally I would rather we finally got the MCU Fantastic Four. (And I’ve said it before, made Reed Latino, so we can finally have a decent Latino rep in Marvel outside of Agents of SHIELD and the idea of Chavez).

Edited by Beatman1 on Feb 27th 2019 at 3:19:13 PM

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#97139: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:18:30 PM

[up]x3 I agree with the spirit of your comment, but not the letter: saying that a movie "isn't for the critic" is a pathetic deflection tactic and merely points out at an audience member lacking enough maturity to accept that not everyone will like what they like.

But you cannot compare when a male and female critic does that: sure, depending on how rabid the fan base is, it would be unpleasant all the same, but women are frequently bigger target of bile and general low-shots, it is a simple fact. Comparing the two is a simple false equivalence.

[up]Yeah, had a Double Take as well, if anything the alt-right nutters would love the Ultimate Avengers.

As for the Ultimates, while I liked what I read, personally the journey of Galactus was the best part of it for me, maybe because the comic was released close to Civil War 2 and I didn't stick around long enough for any other plotline to develop.

Edited by HailMuffins on Feb 27th 2019 at 5:21:10 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#97140: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:18:37 PM

[up][up][up][up] I don't think that follows. You see, if that white, male, middle-aged journalist gives a film a bad review on the basis of what pleases them, or what they think will please their audience, instead of addressing it from the perspective of its demographic, they are doing a disservice both to their readers and to the film, and it is entirely reasonable to point that out.

These are professional critics; they should be able handle a bit of criticism.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 27th 2019 at 3:18:55 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#97141: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:18:58 PM

[up][up][up] The names been reused by a 616 group of characters who engage in super-science adventures in save the universe.

Their first mission was successfully curing Galactus’ hunger.

Edited by slimcoder on Feb 27th 2019 at 12:19:33 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#97142: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:21:09 PM

Well, on that subject, I'm a little bit leery of Marvel combining the rotating out of older characters with an escalation in the general capabilities of their cast. It runs the risk of solving every new problem with a smarter or more capable hero, and of fatiguing the audience with one world-ending threat after another.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 27th 2019 at 3:21:47 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#97143: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:21:37 PM

[up][up]Comic books are still weird.

And yeah, the spirit of Larson’s argument makes sense but she phrased it terribly. And as we all know, the people who view any sort of attempt at rocking the boat as a personal affront will go for the absolute worst possible interpretation.

Edited by Beatman1 on Feb 27th 2019 at 3:21:53 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#97144: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:22:17 PM

They also briefly met the original Ultimate-verse Ultimates.

America Chavez utterly demolished Ultimate Cap. [lol]

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#97145: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:23:17 PM

[up]Which was stupid, but everyone here knows how much I hate Chavez.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#97146: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:23:26 PM

@Hailmuffins Yeah the comic was screwed over by Marvel’s constant event tie-ins.

The comics writer Al Ewing really is a talented as fuck writer, dudes currently writing Hulk as a horror comic.

[up] Chavez has a higher power level than Cap, especially Ultimate Cap.

Edited by slimcoder on Feb 27th 2019 at 12:24:36 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#97147: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:24:09 PM

I’ve seen men, both in online reviews and in person, insult perfectly good, even great movies because they’re too “girly” or “romantic” etc. If I had a nickel for every man who brushes off Pride & Prejudice (a goddamn masterpiece, both the book and each film adaptation) as being silly or shallow...

Why? Because it’s a work that wasn’t written for men, or from a male perspective. And brushing that aside as “oh, but Truly great movies appeal to Everyone” is condescending at best. We shouldn’t be getting the vast majority of reviews from a white male perspective for every movie. Look at how differently white critics and Black critics responded to Green Book.

Edited by wisewillow on Feb 27th 2019 at 3:24:35 PM

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#97148: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:26:10 PM

[up][up]Cap’s whole appeal in 616 is that he isn’t the strongest or most powerful, but he’s the best man for the job. Ultimate Cap’s is that France meme.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#97149: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:26:19 PM

Yeah Ultimate Cap got off easy in he didn’t immediately explode from one sub-lightspeed punch from her.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#97150: Feb 27th 2019 at 12:27:37 PM

Like I said, higher power level.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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