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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#96426: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:07:06 PM

I will respond that claiming the only way to rebuke Thanos ideologically with a long lecture or PowerPoint is exaggerating. Zemo’s point was disproven in one scene. The Joker’s, in one scene. Harvey Dent’s, in one shot. Loki’s, the entire climactic battle added up to refute him. The language of film is absolutely capable of summarizing ideological rebukes efficiently and with showing action rather than telling words.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Feb 6th 2019 at 1:07:20 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#96428: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:09:48 PM

Okay so everyone trying with all their might to stop him does not count as objecting then.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#96429: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:16:49 PM

It would if their physical rebellion was framed as countering the villain’s claims, as it was in Avengers 1, but it is not framed that way in Infinity War as Thanos doesn’t mind most resistance and is aware most people hate him.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Feb 6th 2019 at 1:18:35 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#96430: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:18:50 PM

So Endgame then.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#96431: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:20:21 PM

Maybe, if he expects to be celebrated then. But that’s a long time in coming.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#96432: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:20:40 PM

Each movie has to stand alone, if not with its plot, then with its themes.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#96433: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:21:52 PM

I agree with alliterator and Tucker.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#96434: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:25:05 PM

I will amend my point to say there are some movies I think can remain unclosed at the end thematically. Swap Infinity War with Civil War, and I would gladly see a 2 parter CW film where the first half ends ambiguously and Zemo’s point isn’t right away proven wrong, because it’s on a topic that actually deserves more thought and nuance than “consider genocide, part 2”.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Feb 6th 2019 at 1:25:33 AM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#96435: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:29:50 PM

Whatever. I guess we'll never agree on that issue. As far as I'm concerned, the movie frames Thanos' quest as every bit as bad as it is.

Like I said, making a character irredeemable and sympathetic at the same time is not an oxymoron, in my opinion.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#96436: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:30:24 PM

You know they might try to solve the problem with time travel,like they go back to before whatever event drove Thanos mad hoping to prevent it,they don't succeed but we get effectively a flashaback of Thanos's home before it was destroyed by whatever

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
MileRun Since: Jan, 2001
#96437: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:31:45 PM

That's because Thanos' worldview doesn't hinge on assumptions about human behavior in the way that Loki, Zemo, and the Joker's worldviews do.

Loki believed that that the masses weak-willed and deserved to be ruled by totalitarian power. The Joker believed that humans were inherently self-preserving and would not hesitate to kill others in order to save their own lives. Zemo believed that humans cannot help but be consumed by vengeance, and that the desire for retribution outweighs all other impulses. All three of those are theses about how humans will behave, and so they can be refuted by having the good characters act contrary to those predictions.

Thanos isn't concerned with how people will behave, so much as how people should behave. He thinks that the few should be sacrificed for the needs of the many in order to maximize the longevity of civilization. That's not the kind of argument that a character can refute through action; that would indeed require a lecture on the exact mechanics of food chains, ecosystems, manufacturing rates, energy costs, living spaces, etc. all over the universe to demonstrate why Thanos is factually wrong. (I mean, now that the snap has happened, Endgame might go the route of showing that Thanos miscalculated, but I have doubts that's how Engame would want to tackle the issue, which IW has presented as strictly a moral one)

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#96439: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:37:50 PM

That's not the kind of argument that a character can refute through action; that would indeed require a lecture on the exact mechanics of food chains, ecosystems, manufacturing rates, energy costs, living spaces, etc. all over the universe to demonstrate why Thanos is factually wrong.
No, it doesn't; all it needs is for one person to object not just on moral grounds, but on logical grounds, too. Have someone point out that his plan makes no sense, that's it's based on flawed logic. You don't need to have a lecture to show him wrong; you just need people to say he is wrong on something other than a moral level.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#96440: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:40:03 PM

Over three hours? Hopefully Marvel considers adding a planned intermission.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#96441: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:40:36 PM

wild mass guess The climax for Avengers: Endgame will feature Al Gore giving a forty-minute power-point presentation on the logistical problems of Thanos killing half the universe. The true title of the film will be revealed to be Avengers: An Inconvenient Snap. wild mass guess

Edited by chasemaddigan on Feb 6th 2019 at 4:41:02 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#96442: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:41:59 PM

Some theatres do have have an intermission,but only a select few I've been to

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#96443: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:44:12 PM

That's because Thanos' worldview doesn't hinge on assumptions about human behavior in the way that Loki, Zemo, and the Joker's worldviews do.

That might be it. Maybe I just find villains with questions about human behavior more compelling, and ones with factual misjudgments too thin for two films.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Feb 6th 2019 at 1:44:31 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#96444: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:48:13 PM

[up][up] It's not that I want an intermission, it is that I want Marvel to pick a point and tell the theatres: So, if you really want to do one, THERE is the place to do it.

I saw Infinity War twice. First time in my favourite theatre without intermission. Second time around they just stopped the movie in a very stupid moment, completely interrupting the suspense.

I personally prefer none at all, I can deal with three hours without toilet break. But if there has to be one, I don't want them to put it at a random point.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#96445: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:48:52 PM

Thanos doesn’t care to ask, he just does it.

He wastes no time with pointless platitudes.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#96447: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:57:30 PM

The only time I've seen an intermission during a film was back when Disney released the first two Toy Story films as a double-feature before the third film came out. The placed it between the films, which was a logical place to put it.

AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#96448: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:59:23 PM

The bare minimum I ask of Endgame is Thanos getting his ass kicked, Gamora coming back to life somehow, and Nebula surviving the whole thing. Expect me to come here blurting out "ALEXA PLAY WEIGHT OF THE WORLD" if all three requirements are met.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#96449: Feb 6th 2019 at 2:02:03 PM

I rate Nebula's chances of survival about the same as I rate the chances of John F. Kennedy surviving several shots to the head.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#96450: Feb 6th 2019 at 2:05:19 PM

Yeah, Nebula's odds of survival are pretty nebulous.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!

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