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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#96276: Feb 5th 2019 at 3:34:02 PM

People are still arguing about Thanos’ motivation?

The creators outright said it was to prove he was right. He wants to be validated.

Disgusted, but not surprised
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#96277: Feb 5th 2019 at 3:37:12 PM

An author's interpratation is no more or less valid than that of the audience.

Any amount of complexity means the author and the audience nor necessarely seeing eye-to-eye, and Thanos is a fairly complex character.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#96278: Feb 5th 2019 at 3:49:39 PM

Again if were’re gonna give grief to Thanos let’s not forget Mr. I’m gonna solve the issues plaguing black people by giving them all bigger guns. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#96279: Feb 5th 2019 at 3:53:39 PM

Yeah, I think that was less "Thanos is lying when he says that he cares about saving the universe, he's really just a petty bitch who can't let go of a grudge" and more "Thanos does genuinely believe in what he says, but there's a part of him deep in his subconscious that really just wants to prove that he was right and have validation".

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Feb 5th 2019 at 4:54:20 AM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#96280: Feb 5th 2019 at 3:57:06 PM

Honestly, I think people who insist on seeing Thanos as the one-dimensional, pure evil Space Nazi are just as deluded as people who try to insist that he has a reasonable goal and motivation.

He is neither a pure Well-Intentioned Extremist, nor is he pure evil. That is the beauty of his character. He doesn't fit in either of these boxes.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#96281: Feb 5th 2019 at 3:58:23 PM

I think he definitely considers himself a Well-Intentioned Extremist, at least.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#96282: Feb 5th 2019 at 3:58:59 PM

Except when he wipes out the Dwarves and the Asgardians...and Gamora's people...and probably Xandar....

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#96283: Feb 5th 2019 at 4:03:46 PM

Thanos is a man of contradictions, double standards, & self-justifications........ which makes him pretty damn human.

He cares for his children but he despises Nebula, he believes himself a man of honor but his actions toward the dwarves speaks otherwise, he wants to save the universe but his methods of doing so involves mass murder & conquering, he stated he’s allied with a group of fellow believes but those groups included mindless monsters, people he’s brow-bested into serving him, & savage killers he’s indoctrinated since childhood.

He is a man of many qualities, self-delusion being the primary one of them.

Edited by slimcoder on Feb 5th 2019 at 4:06:00 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#96284: Feb 5th 2019 at 4:05:20 PM

My point was that I think its kinda weird to see how some people seem hellbent on trying to deny that Thanos, no matter how irredeemably evil he is, has some clear-cut redeeming features. Hell, I once even saw somebody deny that he was grieving for Gamora....when there really isn't ANY logical base to deny that whatsoever.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#96285: Feb 5th 2019 at 5:59:51 PM

people who insist on seeing Thanos as the one-dimensional, pure evil Space Nazi

That's silly, Thanos isn't a Space Nazi. He's Space Chairman Mao.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#96286: Feb 5th 2019 at 6:59:22 PM

What helps with that in the comics is that it's often not quite clear if Lady Death even wants him to be doing this, or if he's just being a creepy stalker, firing up the boom box outside the window of a disinterested cosmic being.

Um, reading the rest of your post it seems quite clear that Death in fact does not want Thanos running around killing people in her name.

"Annihilation", one of the best stories Thanos ever featured in, made a plot point out of this. Thanos killed people to curry Death's favor, and she shunned him. So he killed more people as a greater tribute, and she shunned him. So he killed yet more people and she shunned him still. By the story's end, he's having a misogynistic breakdown like "What the f*ck do you want from me?!"

Edited by windleopard on Feb 5th 2019 at 7:13:01 AM

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#96287: Feb 5th 2019 at 7:14:48 PM

Honestly, at this point I have seen more people complaining about people supposedly agreeing with Thanos than seeing anyone *actually unironically* agreeing with Thanos. I'm not even sure these people exist. No one in this thread is actually saying that they are agreeing with Thanos.

You can think that a villain is a nuanced character with layers and see where they are coming from, but still at the same time agree that they are a dangerous maniac whose philosophy is flawed and who absolutely needs to be stopped. This isn't mind-blowing.

Edited by Nightwire on Feb 5th 2019 at 7:15:17 AM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#96288: Feb 5th 2019 at 7:17:13 PM

Honestly, at this point I have seen more people complaining about people supposedly agreeing with Thanos than seeing anyone *actually unironically* agreeing with Thanos. I'm not even sure these people exist.
This is the internet: those people exist.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#96289: Feb 5th 2019 at 7:18:33 PM

And? Tons of stupid people exist on the internet. Pick your battles, and your audience.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#96290: Feb 5th 2019 at 7:22:02 PM

Yes, I know that stupid people exist on the internet. But that also means that we should call out something when it fans the fuel of their stupidity. I have no doubt that there are people who consider Thanos to be completely right (and not in that Reddit "Thanos was totally right" way) and I just think that Infinity War needed something a bit more to refute his argument — even just a scene of him not caring about any evidence proving him wrong or whatever — something to show that even if Thanos is sympathetic, he is still completely and utterly wrong. (And no, there is no such scene in the film.)

Edited by alliterator on Feb 5th 2019 at 7:22:53 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#96291: Feb 5th 2019 at 7:25:20 PM

So Endgame then?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#96292: Feb 5th 2019 at 7:35:43 PM

I don't know what happens in Endgame. I'm saying that there should have been a scene in Infinity War that shows he's wrong, but that he doesn't care.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#96293: Feb 5th 2019 at 7:44:09 PM

His convo with Gamora was enough.

Either way now that the snap actually happened, he will see with his own eyes how wrong this method was.

Edited by slimcoder on Feb 5th 2019 at 7:44:43 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#96294: Feb 5th 2019 at 7:51:05 PM

Hardly. Even that IMO doesn't go deeply enough into the inner workings of how and why Thanos is wrong and what he could do differently. Not even any real mention of an alternative like attempting to just make more resources.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#96295: Feb 5th 2019 at 7:52:25 PM

Eh, it doesn't take a direct refute to know he's wrong.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#96296: Feb 5th 2019 at 7:55:12 PM

Eh, it doesn't take a direct refute to know he's wrong.
Gamora doesn't even indirectly refute him. She says that he's never loved anyone — and then is instantly proved wrong in the worst possible way.

Edited by alliterator on Feb 5th 2019 at 7:55:26 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#96297: Feb 5th 2019 at 7:56:10 PM

People may walk away from any film convinced the villain was right, but what matters is if the text provides enough to prove that the film does not share the same conclusion. Black Panther shows Killmonger was wrong. The Dark Knight shows the Joker and Harvet Dent were wrong. Civil War shows that Zemo was wrong. Infinity War does not show that, and if it's not going to do so, it should've done so for a conflict that actually deserves 5 hours of moral quandary, not 5 hours of "have you considered genocide".

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#96298: Feb 5th 2019 at 7:57:49 PM

Heh there's something amusing about that phrasing, "in the worst possible way". tongue

Man that day for her was just a fucking rollar-coster.

[up] Though unlike those other examples, IW is clearly part of a two-parter no matter what Word of God says.

Edited by slimcoder on Feb 5th 2019 at 7:58:48 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MileRun Since: Jan, 2001
#96299: Feb 5th 2019 at 8:03:14 PM

I don't think Thanos was supposed to be factually wrong about killing half the universe equating to saving the rest. Ignoring how, mechanically, his plan makes no sense (he's wiping out half of all organic resources in the universe, so it's not like the survivors will have proportionally more food after the snap), the film presents it as a factually correct solution to improving the longevity of civilizations throughout the universe.

That's actually really important. The question the film poses is, "Is it right to sacrifice other people for the greater good?" If it turns out that the snap wasn't even a functional solution for the greater good, that would distract from the moral question, leading to unanswered follow-up questions like, "Thanos was scientifically wrong about how to save the universe, but if his science was right, then would it have been the right thing to do?"

By making Thanos factually right, the film can then argue that Thanos was ethically wrong.

Edited by MileRun on Feb 5th 2019 at 8:04:17 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#96300: Feb 5th 2019 at 8:08:48 PM

Thing is, presenting it as "it'd work, it'd just be evil" is how we get tropes like Repressive, but Efficient, which perpetuate myths about dictatorships as being more productive than free societies. 30 years later Star Wars is still having to shake off the insistence that the Empire was safer than the Republic by showing, no, it wasn't.


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