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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#95801: Jan 28th 2019 at 9:09:25 PM

Even prior to Civil War 2, and persisting after it, Carol is just unlikeable. As for the conflict itself, in short, Carol's ends were bad, and Tony's methods were bad.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#95802: Jan 28th 2019 at 9:09:46 PM

And Ironheart is hated forever as a result. Well, that and other reasons.

Come to think of it, Civil War II is why everyone hated the idea of a Captain Marvel movie in the first place.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#95803: Jan 28th 2019 at 9:11:24 PM

The people who run Marvel Comics & also DC are fucking morons.

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 28th 2019 at 9:11:34 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#95804: Jan 28th 2019 at 9:13:10 PM

I'm sure Editor-in-Chief "Pretended To Be Japanese and Told All My Inkers They Suck" Dude has great direction for Marvel Comics. tongue

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jan 28th 2019 at 9:13:26 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#95805: Jan 28th 2019 at 9:19:06 PM

[up][up][up] People already hated Carol for being a perceived Creator's Pet beforehand. Civil War 2 indicated they truly didn't know what they were doing with her sudden rise to prominence as well as being a needless cashing in on the fact that the Civil War movie brought the name back.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#95806: Jan 28th 2019 at 9:20:57 PM

A big sticking point about Carol is the fact her comic has been relaunched over 5 times in the last couple years.

Every time they make it to 12 issues, they cancel it & start all over.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#95807: Jan 28th 2019 at 9:27:53 PM

And yet, this is still not the worst thing the comics have ever done to Carol Danvers. I'm looking at you, Avengers #200...

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#95808: Jan 28th 2019 at 9:52:26 PM

Even prior to Civil War 2, and persisting after it, Carol is just unlikeable.
No, she wasn't. When Kelly Sue DeConnick relaunched her book as Captain Marvel, she gained quite a big fan following who called themselves the Carol Corps. It was only after KSD stopped writing Carol (after Secret Wars) that Marvel didn't know what to do with her and ended up relaunching her book a few more times with different writers. And even then, she had books where people liked her a lot (The Ultimates) and books where they didn't (Ms. Marvel, unfortunately).

And Ironheart is hated forever as a result. Well, that and other reasons.
Those "other reasons" being racism. In any case, she isn't "hated forever" — her new book, written by Eve Ewing, has come out to pretty much critical and fan acclaim. Loads of people are liking it a lot, mainly because we're see her personality better written (Bendis tried, but unfortunately couldn't make it work) and she's also a TNG-fangirl.

Come to think of it, Civil War II is why everyone hated the idea of a Captain Marvel movie in the first place.
Not everyone hated the idea of a Captain Marvel movie. In fact, a Captain Marvel movie was announced before CWII, so I have no idea what you are talking about.

I'm looking at you, Avengers #200...
My favorite thing about that is when Jessica Jones was giving birth, she needed Carol to tell everyone the story of Avengers #200 just so Jessica would feel betternote . Yes, it was incredibly mean of Jessica, but to be fair, she was in incredible pain and giving birth prematurely.

Edited by alliterator on Jan 28th 2019 at 9:57:31 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#95809: Jan 28th 2019 at 9:55:04 PM

And you know: It's Jessica Jones.

Not a nice person.

So, have Jess and Peter ever talked about how crazy it is that they not only went to the same high school, but got their powers around the same time?

Though I suppose that's more a topic for the comic thread than here.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Jan 28th 2019 at 10:55:30 AM

One Strip! One Strip!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#95810: Jan 28th 2019 at 9:58:16 PM

So, have Jess and Peter ever talked about how crazy it is that they not only went to the same high school, but got their powers around the same time?
When Peter unmasked in front of the New Avengers, Jessica confessed that she had a crush on him in high school, but Peter only remembered her as "coma girl." And that was pretty much that.

Edited by alliterator on Jan 28th 2019 at 9:58:34 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#95811: Jan 28th 2019 at 9:59:19 PM

NVM

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 28th 2019 at 9:59:29 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#95812: Jan 28th 2019 at 10:06:41 PM

The funny part is Luke honestly got jealous & a little scared about it.

He wanted to know it was just a crush or a crush, crush. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#95813: Jan 28th 2019 at 10:30:30 PM

"Wait, was it a crush, or were you in love? Because those are very different things."

It was funny because when Jessica said she had a crush, Luke thought it was funny but when she said she was in love, that was when he got annoyed.

My various fanfics.
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#95814: Jan 29th 2019 at 6:42:29 AM

Ah, Civil War 2. In my opinion an even GREATER mess than Civil War 1. Carol was a straight-up fascist.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#95815: Jan 29th 2019 at 6:43:43 AM

BMB should stop writing anything for a year or two so he can focus on figuring out where his talent went.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#95816: Jan 29th 2019 at 6:46:21 AM

Eh, I'm not even somebody who hates on Bendis. I actually enjoyed his X-Men run. And his Ultimate Spidey run was consistently awesome.

He is just bad at writing crossovers.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#95817: Jan 29th 2019 at 6:51:00 AM

No one really writes crossovers well,the bar is too high for most

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#95818: Jan 29th 2019 at 7:33:16 AM

I liked the first half of AvX. It was a pretty solid premise. After the Mutant Decimation, the remaining mutants had basically withdrawn from the human world under Cyclops's leadership. For years, Marvel had been building up that Cyclops was turning into the next-gen Magneto out of fear for his people's future. AvX was the breaking point.

The Phoenix Force was moving through the universe, cutting a path towards Earth. Every world it passed, it incinerated in its wake. Intelligent worlds populated with billions of lives were destroyed in the fires of creation and destruction. And it wanted Earth.

Specifically, it wanted Hope Summers, a prospective Phoenix Host. The X-Men believed that when the Phoenix arrived, it would not destroy the world but would instead bring the light of creation and reignite the flame of mutantkind. They see it as their messianic last hope.

The Avengers believe that a trail of dead worlds is a pattern, and that the Phoenix has to be prevented from reaching Earth at all costs. The plan is that if it wants Hope, then they'll take Hope out into space and play a game of cosmic keep-away until they can develop a better understanding of what the Phoenix is, what it wants, and what it intends to do with her.

Neo-Magneto Scott is not going to surrender one of his mutants to humans and their agendas without a fight, and also he kinda wants to let the Phoenix come to Earth. The Avengers, meanwhile, aren't about to let the legalities of abducting a minor from a sovereign nation that does not recognize their authority stop them from saving the world. Let's You and Him Fight.

That whole setup and the ensuing action was pretty good. But then the Phoenix arrived and the second half took a sharp left turn into f*cksville.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 29th 2019 at 8:34:18 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#95819: Jan 29th 2019 at 7:36:15 AM

Insert obligatory "keep the X-Men out of the main MCU because they just cannot coexist with the rest of the Marvel Universe no matter how much the writers try" comment.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#95820: Jan 29th 2019 at 7:36:29 AM

A v X was just the culmination of Scott's Ron the Death Eater Informed Wrongness trip. The Avengers acted like utter thugs throughout the event, with Captain America of all people being the biggest victim of the Jerkass Ball.

[up] Disagree on the normal 616 verse, but totally agree on the MCU by now. Especially with the Inhumans acting as their poor mans substitute....

Edited by Forenperser on Jan 29th 2019 at 4:37:13 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#95821: Jan 29th 2019 at 7:42:13 AM

Well, we are talking about the MCU...

Insert the usual "I think hat they should create a parallel universe with the X-men, so that they can do a dimension hopping adventure in the future".

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#95822: Jan 29th 2019 at 7:47:34 AM

Ah, Civil War 2. In my opinion an even GREATER mess than Civil War 1. Carol was a straight-up fascist.
If my "fascist" you mean "not at all fascist," then sure. Her whole deal was that she was trying to prevent tragedies from happening before they happened, but there were some of her underlings that took that too far (like in Ms. Marvel, where Lockup actually was fascist) and began arresting people for crimes they hadn't committed. The only time Carol detained someone who hadn't actually committed a crime was the woman whom she believed had a bomb in her briefcase and it turned out not to be true and even then, she let the woman go. (The woman later on would turn out to be a villain in Jessica Jones anyway.)

So Carol's entire position was "These predictions can save a ton of lives" (which was true), while Tony's position was "These predictions aren't 100% accurate, so you will end up making a mistake and costing people's lives." This is compounded by the fact that Rhodey died due to their fight with Thanos and Bruce Banner died after they confronted him, but that wasn't even really their fault — Bruce told Hawkeye to kill him if he saw him start to change.

The whole storyline was a mess and was compounded by the fact that the tie-ins tended to portray Carol's side as way worse than Tony's, even though it was then pointed out that Tony had done the exact same thing when he ran a team called "Force Works."

Edited by alliterator on Jan 29th 2019 at 7:48:22 AM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#95823: Jan 29th 2019 at 7:50:38 AM

The woman didn't 'turn out to be a villain', she was trying to get revenge for her unlawful imprisonment. Wrong, yes, but understandable, it is a classical case of Create Your Own Villain on Carol's part.

And sorry, but Carol was in carge, she is responsible for her underlings actions. And acting before something happened is just wrong, no matter how you look at it.

That is the same kind of attitude that get's minorities shot by overzealous police officers.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#95824: Jan 29th 2019 at 7:56:58 AM

That is the same kind of attitude that get's minorities shot by overzealous police officers.
There is a massive difference between "shooting a teen because you think he might have a gun" and "preventing a worldwide massacre from something called a Celestial Destructor" or "preventing Thanos from killing everyone." The latter two situations are what Carol had been doing with Ulysses.

The woman didn't 'turn out to be a villain', she was trying to get revenge for her unlawful imprisonment.
She was trying to get revenge by organizing the killing of the Champions, a group of teenage superheroes. If the first thought after you are released from unlawful imprisonment is "In order to get revenge, I need a kill a bunch of kids" you were probably pretty bad before being arrested.

Edited by alliterator on Jan 29th 2019 at 8:01:47 AM

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#95825: Jan 29th 2019 at 7:57:51 AM

That whole storyline is meaningless in a world where Minority Report exists.

Edited by HailMuffins on Jan 29th 2019 at 12:58:30 PM


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