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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#95551: Jan 24th 2019 at 7:30:03 AM

@M84 Depends on the comedy. For example, if you watch Scream without ever having seen a horror movie beforehand, you most likely won't get it. A lot of movies start with a certain expectation regarding the audience.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#95552: Jan 24th 2019 at 8:00:02 AM

[up][up]Which is great, 'cause the Ultimates cartoon is what the comics should've gone for.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#95553: Jan 24th 2019 at 11:05:35 AM

See what I mean by the lack of sleeves.

Now find another picture with that half mask of his.

The whole thing looks even worse because you can see his eyes.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#95554: Jan 24th 2019 at 5:07:34 PM

[up][up][up]

There are movies that riff on certain genres, yes, and people who are familiar with those genres will ge more likely to enjoy such movies. Someone is more likely to notice a trope being subverted if they’re aware of the trope played straight.

That’s not quite the same as something like IW, where understanding who the characters are, being aware of their relationships with each other, and habving a reason to care about them is largely dependent on having watched (a fair bit of) the rest of the MCU - not just dependent on a general familiarity with superhero movies. You can still enjoy it without that, in its capacity as a big sequence of fight scenes, but the emotional impact is dependent on pre-existing attachment to the characters.

In a way, the MCU is more comparable to a TV series with 3-4 lengthy, expensive episodes per year, than to anything else we’ve seen from the blockbuster film industry. What’s astonishing is how well it’s working. They’ve developed a large enough fanbase that there’s a critical mass of people who do know and love the chararcters.

Edited by Galadriel on Jan 24th 2019 at 8:08:30 AM

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#95555: Jan 24th 2019 at 5:24:23 PM

Yeah, but still feels like a weird criticism, considering the possibilities brought forth by the long-term story of the MCU is one of its selling points, and the way it stands-out from the crowd.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#95556: Jan 25th 2019 at 3:01:42 AM

[up][up] Yes, but this isn't a negative. It is exactly what makes Infinity War so special. Holding it against it is just odd.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#95557: Jan 25th 2019 at 7:30:43 AM

I mean I we want to get technical, Black Panther (2018) doesn't entirely stand on its own. If you haven't seen Captain America: Civil War, you're probably going to be confused why the death of T'challa's father happened offscreen in a terrorist attack that doesn't have a major impact on the story of the film.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#95558: Jan 25th 2019 at 7:53:54 AM

I think the only Phase 3 movie that can be said to stand completely on its own is Doctor Strange, the rest need some manner of familiarity with the greater MCU.

Which is ironic, really, considering most people don't seem to like it very much. Well, here, anyway.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#95559: Jan 25th 2019 at 7:58:36 AM

I mean, my aunt and cousin hadn’t seen Civil War and they had zero problem understanding Black Panther. Recently dead parent is a classic coming of age story and Shakespearean Act I Scene 1 trope.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#95560: Jan 25th 2019 at 8:09:55 AM

Well, I encountered someone on the net who claimed that Infinity war was the first MCU movie he/she watched. Loved it so much that he/she is now catching up.

I mean, Infinity War isn't that difficult to understand, you just get more out of it the more of the previous movies you watched.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#95561: Jan 25th 2019 at 8:38:39 AM

Yeah, I don't think you need to know who killed T'Challa's father and why. Only that his dad just died, that means he has to be king now, and he doesn't feel like he's entirely ready to shoulder that responsibility.

The transition of power is the story, not the details of T'Chaka's death.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#95562: Jan 25th 2019 at 9:18:31 AM

You see, that wouldn't be a problem, except it shows a flashback to Civil War showing the UN building getting bombed and T'chaka dying in his son's arms. If this movie existed in a vacuum, that would be a very odd creative decision to do. Like, what movie would have a king and father to the hero dying in a terrorist attack at the United Nations offscreen, and only mention how the man responsible for the attack was apprehended by the hero before the story starts?

My mom watched the film with me and my dad when it was released on Netflix, and this was the one part she was confused by, since she hadn't seen much of the previous MCU films. So I know people going into this blind might be a bit confused.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Jan 25th 2019 at 12:19:13 PM

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#95563: Jan 25th 2019 at 9:33:13 AM

I think it reinforces the whole "this is why we don't like getting involved with the outside world" aspect of Wakanda.

Edited by Pseudopartition on Jan 25th 2019 at 11:33:27 AM

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#95564: Jan 25th 2019 at 9:34:59 AM

I mean I feel like if one knows the nature of the MCU then "Oh that happened in a different movie" is an easy assumption to make.

This song needs more love.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#95565: Jan 25th 2019 at 9:35:06 AM

It doesn't happen in Wakanda though

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#95566: Jan 25th 2019 at 9:37:20 AM

Yeah.

Although Killmonger came about because of that decision as well. You could argue that he'd have never gotten the opportunity to do what he did if not for T'chaka's death, but then you remember it was probably always part of his plan to use Klaue to lure them out, then kill the latter himself and use it as his way back in.

All the stuff with Zemo was just a bonus that helped his bottom line.

One Strip! One Strip!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#95567: Jan 25th 2019 at 9:38:38 AM

I think the only part of the plot or dialogue that even references the circumstances of T'Chaka's death is M'Baku taunting T'Challa for being unable to protect him.

Beyond that one line, while his death is shown on the news in the beginning, it's just to establish that he'd dead. It has no bearing on the story beyond him needing to be dead for the plot to happen, so it's not really required to know the specifics to understand the movie.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 25th 2019 at 9:53:51 AM

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#95568: Jan 25th 2019 at 9:49:22 AM

It doesn't happen in Wakanda though
Exactly. They're at the United Nations, getting involved in world affairs, and the place gets blown to hell and their king dies. Even without the context of Civil War (with some of their aid workers getting killed in another country being part the reason they're involved in the Accords negotiations in the first place), it makes sense that the Wakandan's would think "see, every time we try to help the rest of the world we end up suffering for it, why bother getting involved at all?"

It could have been more explicitly referenced, especially bookended with the UN scene in the credits, but I think it fits.

Edit: anyone know why paragraph breaks aren't working for me?

Edited by Pseudopartition on Jan 25th 2019 at 11:49:45 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#95569: Jan 25th 2019 at 10:08:00 AM

Question about foreign monarchs, is it common practice to use style terminology when speaking to them directly if you're not one of their subjects? If I was to bump into Prince Harry on the street would I be expected to refer to him as "Your Majesty"? Or was that just a Hollywood Royalty thing they had Rhodes to to convey T'Challa's rank?

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#95570: Jan 25th 2019 at 10:29:55 AM

As far as I know, it is diplomatic courtesy to refer to them as "Your Majesty" or "Your Grace" in public settings unless the monarch specifically requests things to be kept informal. Queen Elizabeth is commonly called "Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth" even in countries she has no rule (symbolic or otherwise) over.

After all the Pope is often referred to as "Your Holiness" even in non-Catholic countries by people that aren't Catholic.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#95571: Jan 25th 2019 at 10:41:24 AM

It does indeed serve the traditionalist narrative in Wakanda.

Wakandan political cartoonists probably waited like a week to be respectful and then started passing around newspaper comics of T'Chaka stepping over the boundary line like, "See, there's nothing to be afraid of in the outside world OH WHOOPS I EXPLODED."

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 25th 2019 at 11:41:38 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#95572: Jan 25th 2019 at 10:48:29 AM

It's like that for any official position. It's why the term "Mr. President" is still used for ex-Presidents even after they leave office for example. Or when I meet a Catholic priest, I still refer to him as "Father" even though I'm not Catholic myself. Or why ex-Senators/congressmen are still called "Senator" or "Congressman" etc.

Now if they give the ok to be more informal, then that's the exception.

Shake-Master Since: Dec, 2013
#95573: Jan 25th 2019 at 1:41:00 PM

I'm just still wondering how it took the Wakandans 20 years to find Klaue, when it took the Avengers half an afternoon with no internet to track him down in Age of Ultron.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#95574: Jan 25th 2019 at 2:00:11 PM

Stark directly had him as an acquaintance during his weapons-dealer days and knew his stomping grounds. So they had a pretty great lead on where he was from that previous relationship between Stark and Klaue. Wakandans just had to start from scratch.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Shake-Master Since: Dec, 2013
#95575: Jan 25th 2019 at 2:03:04 PM

Except Stark knew him BEFORE he stole the Vibranium, so all he had to go on was an even colder trail than the Wakandans had, and if he had stayed in one location for more than 25 years, that just makes the Wakandans inability to find him even worse.

Edited by Shake-Master on Jan 25th 2019 at 2:11:00 AM


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