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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#95426: Jan 22nd 2019 at 6:57:54 PM

I liked Vice. I thought it was just funny enough.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#95427: Jan 22nd 2019 at 8:12:09 PM

I liked Infinity War, but it was never getting an Oscar for anything other than Vf X.

It’s biggest strength was managing to juggle an insane number of characters without imploding, but I have a hard time saying it was one of the best movies of the year, particularly when unlike Black Panther, it doesn’t really hold together as a solo product. A lot of the emotional beats don’t land unless you’ve seen the other movies.

That’s not to say I think BP will win either. It probably won’t. Just that if we’re using the argument it isn’t worthy of Best Picture, no way in hell is Infinity War.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#95428: Jan 22nd 2019 at 8:13:48 PM

Even the poster of Green Book was made in such a way as to minimize its black lead and put its white one at the forefront. Considering the entire history and purpose of the actual Green Book object is because we black people needed an almanac of where was safe for us to exist in the United States, whitewashing all of that for a self-congratulatory movie just had me done.

@Swanpride: I specifically said in other places. But fine, if you insist on making it about you, please, go ahead and state every movie of the nominees that you think Infinity War or other films you've seen were more deserving of a nomination for, beyond just "Infinity War should've gotten something instead of Black Panther". Or why not "X movie should've gotten a nomination as well"? Or maybe consider that if you haven't seen all of the nominees, it's pointless to say something should've gotten in over the one you have seen and making sure that one loses its nomination.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Jan 22nd 2019 at 10:19:40 AM

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#95429: Jan 22nd 2019 at 8:19:08 PM

Heck, only eight out of a possible ten films were nominated for Best Picture this year, Black Panther isn't really "taking" anyone's spot as there are additional spots that weren't filled (I believe films have to reach a certain nomination threshold or something equally convoluted?).

Edited by Pseudopartition on Jan 22nd 2019 at 10:19:33 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#95430: Jan 23rd 2019 at 2:49:01 AM

[up][up] To clarify something, I am not making it about me, I don't necessarily mind Black Panther getting the nomination. I just don't see it as some sort of break-through for comic book movies, I see it as the Academy avoiding another controversy by putting the culturally impactful movie on the list as some sort of nod. I just don't like the suggestion that there are some ulterior motives in people discussing specifically this nomination. For one: I bet a lot of people who do haven't even seen ANY of the other movies nominated. They just know "Wait a minute, this isn't even my favourite comic book movie of the year". So they focus on the one movie over which they know for sure they would have nominated something else. And two: Even those who have seen at least some of the movies in question (it is impossible to see all of them for us overseas btw, because the typical Oscar bait movies don't get released before the nomination are out, so that they can market with some award buzz) will automatically jump to the assumption that the academy wouldn't nominate more than one genre movie and therefore compare Black Panther to the other genre movie of the year.

Also...might I point out that Into the Spider-verse is seen as the clear forerunner which should win for sure by pretty much everyone? And that there are categories in which at least I have Black Panter as my favoured winner?

Unless you are talking about people who use words like "SJW", "Woke" aso. We all know what their issue really is.

[up] Frankly, I don't get that system, I only know that it is impossible to actually have 10 nominees for some mathematical reason.

Edited by Swanpride on Jan 23rd 2019 at 3:04:06 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#95431: Jan 23rd 2019 at 3:04:08 AM

[up]For someone who claims not to mind it, you've spent quite a few posts complaining about it.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#95432: Jan 23rd 2019 at 3:08:02 AM

[up] I didn't spend any post complaining about it...I had one in which I remarked on the lack of chances of Black Panther to actually win the award and two in which I reacted to complains about not everyone being over the moon about the nomination.

If you call that complaining, okay, I call that having a conversation. But feel free to point out the comment of mine in which I am ranting about Black Panther getting nominated. Good luck finding it.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#95433: Jan 23rd 2019 at 3:10:34 AM

[up]Your first post in response to this was bluntly saying it won't win, saying it didn't get nominated in "big" categories, and saying it mostly got the nomination for its cultural importance.

Then it went downhill from there.

Edited by M84 on Jan 23rd 2019 at 7:16:30 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#95434: Jan 23rd 2019 at 3:16:10 AM

[up] I mentioned that it didn't get nominated in the big categories because that IS important. There are only four movies which ever won best picture without the director getting nominated (which is, btw, the reason why I have no longer A star is born as a forerunner either). Mad Max Fury Road got more academy awards than anything else in this year, but it didn't get best picture because it didn't win in any of the "big" categories" (which was some BS, I still think that it was the best movie that year by a long shot). I can't remember a single case of a movie getting nominated for best picture without being nominated for any of the other big categories other than Beauty and the Beast, and there it was kind of understandable.

I think you are also overlooking that I am constantly pushing for Black Panther to win Best Costume and hopefully best production design, too. But okay, see what you want to see.

Edited by Swanpride on Jan 23rd 2019 at 3:18:05 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#95435: Jan 23rd 2019 at 3:16:43 AM

That last bit about how its nomination was more a nod to cultural importance (as opposed to being a good movie) was kind of iffy. For someone who has called out people who claim "SJ Ws ruin everything!", you've edged a bit too close to that sort of rhetoric with that. You're basically implying that Black Panther got nominated for reasons other than being a damn fine movie.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#95436: Jan 23rd 2019 at 3:20:29 AM

[up] Can you honestly claim that this didn't play a role in the nomination? alongside with the huge marketing push Disney did for Black Panther? There is nothing wrong with acknowledging this...there is something wrong which screaming bloody murder about it, because at the end of the day, it isn't the worst way to acknowledge the cultural importance of Black Panther.

And remember, I consider Black Panther an okay movie. The Winter Soldier, Civil War, Got G Vol 1 and 2, Ironman, The First Avenger, The Avengers, Avengers Infinity War, Spider-Man Homecoming are ALL movies I would put ahead of it. To me it is roughly on a level with Ant-man and Ragnarok. And you won't convince me otherwise.

Edited by Swanpride on Jan 23rd 2019 at 3:23:13 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#95437: Jan 23rd 2019 at 3:24:21 AM

[up]It's vaguely dismissive of it. Especially right after stating it bluntly won't win and didn't get nominations in big categories anyway.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#95438: Jan 23rd 2019 at 3:25:35 AM

[up] So...you think that it will win and that the lack of nominations for best director, best script or best actor isn't sending a message?

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#95439: Jan 23rd 2019 at 3:27:53 AM

[up]I'm no prophet. I don't know whether it will win or not.

What I do know is that the proper response to finding out it was nominated is not to immediately go "Oh, it won't win and it didn't even get nominations in the biggest categories. It mostly got nominated for its cultural value anyway."

Can you not see how that might come across as just a little dismissive of the movie?

Edited by M84 on Jan 23rd 2019 at 7:28:30 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#95440: Jan 23rd 2019 at 3:29:49 AM

Not to mention “oh it only got nominated for cultural value” has a subtext of “oh, this movie isn’t actually worthy, it just got nominated cause black people liked it so much.”

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#95441: Jan 23rd 2019 at 3:32:30 AM

[up][up] Only if you think that not considering something the best of the year is automatically dismissive.

Frankly, why has everything always to be in the extreme? Either the best or "how dare you to not appreciate it as you should"?

[up] You said that, not me.

Edited by Swanpride on Jan 23rd 2019 at 3:32:54 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#95442: Jan 23rd 2019 at 3:36:51 AM

[up]Except you were being fairly extreme too. You outright said it won't win. You could have at least started off with why the odds are against it, while still pointing out that it being nominated at all was impressive. And not, y'know, just because it has "cultural importance", whatever you mean by that.

It's really that line where you claimed its nomination was more about its cultural importance than about its own merits as a movie that is somewhat troubling.

Edited by M84 on Jan 23rd 2019 at 7:38:14 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#95443: Jan 23rd 2019 at 3:42:57 AM

[up] I did? I pointed out my reasoning by explaining that a movie which isn't nominated in the "big" categories won't win. The percentage is zero, in case you need to spell it out.

And with cultural importance I meant that Black Panther dealt with themes which are rarely addressed (if at all) in movie, which lead to a lot of people watching it, which will hopefully lead to the studios being ready to go more diverse in the future, hence broadening the possibilities for the future.

If you want to dismiss this as "black people liked it", go ahead, but that is not what I said (and frankly, if only black people had liked it it wouldn't have made half the money it did). I said exactly what I meant, that Black Panther is a movie which impacted the movie industry and will have an effect for years to come.

Btw, you feel that there is a troubling context in what I said, I feel that I was pretty clear and that no matter how many disclaimers I would have attached to my statement, you and others would still have been angry with me for pointing out that Black Panther doesn't have a chance to actually win. For what it is worth: I am sorry that this is the case. I am sorry that Black Panther wasn't the best comic book movie of the year, I am sorry that you only get the cream and not the cherry on the top too. But this is not in my hand, and maybe you simply should enjoy the cream? Black Panther will now always be considered as the first comic book ever nominated for a best picture. That is quite a honour.

Edited by Swanpride on Jan 23rd 2019 at 3:48:48 AM

IronScope STOP. RESETTING. MY. DISPLAY. OPTIONS. from Somewhere Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
STOP. RESETTING. MY. DISPLAY. OPTIONS.
#95444: Jan 23rd 2019 at 3:45:10 AM

I have my doubts that the Oscars actually consider a superhero movie worthy of Best Picture.

Whether it's worth it or not, the Oscars' process probably went something like "Bah, capeshit. This is the one black people liked? Ugh, fine, give it a pity nomination so people don't call us racist this year."

This place is careless.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#95445: Jan 23rd 2019 at 4:01:48 AM

[up][up]

For what it is worth: I am sorry that this is the case. I am sorry that Black Panther wasn't the best comic book movie of the year, I am sorry that you only get the cream and not the cherry on the top too. But this is not in my hand, and maybe you simply should enjoy the cream?

Just because *you* don’t think it was the best comic book movie of the year doesn’t make your opinion a fact which requires an apology.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#95446: Jan 23rd 2019 at 4:03:53 AM

[up] Well, currently the fandom discussions are putting either Infinity war or Into the Spider-verse on top.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#95447: Jan 23rd 2019 at 4:06:22 AM

Citation? It’s completely fine to have your own opinion, but it’s another to say everyone agrees with you. And for what it’s worth, Black Panther got a 97% on Rotten Tomatoes and Infinity War got an 85%.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#95448: Jan 23rd 2019 at 4:43:54 AM

See, none of this would happen if people started seeing the Oscars for the bullshit show it is.

Yet my crusade goes on.

HalfFaust Since: Jan, 2019
#95449: Jan 23rd 2019 at 4:45:27 AM

Weirdly we seem to be more in 'problematic but important' rather than 'unimportant' but I think we're slowly moving.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#95450: Jan 23rd 2019 at 4:58:06 AM

[up][up][up] Campea did a poll, which is naturally not representative, but showed a clear trend. Same with the various ranking lists of the "best superhero movie of the year"...I happen to like to watch them, and I can't think of a single one of them which had Black Panther as number one. I mean, I am sure that there are some, but the ones I saw had Infinity War as number one, with a few having Into the Spiderverse.

Edited by Swanpride on Jan 23rd 2019 at 4:59:05 AM


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