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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#95176: Jan 17th 2019 at 1:32:49 PM

Well, I don't care either way. As I said earlier, I don't care much for legacy characters, and I don't see what Ironman light can bring to the table. But if Marvel has a good idea to introduce her, well, I certainly won't complain. But if I could pick, I would go for characters with different backgrounds and different abilities.

Obligatory pointing towards Silverclaw here.

And to add to the list: I would like to see Amadeus Cho, but not as Hulk, because I like the notion of a hero who is heroic through smarts alone. Naturally you would have to pair him up with another character or two in order to get the necessary action.

Kamala Kahn down the line.

And I still want my Silver Surfer origin movie.

So...yeah, Riri isn't really on top of my "want" list. Sorry.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#95177: Jan 17th 2019 at 1:33:53 PM

I think Cyborg 009 had a super intelligent telepathic infant.

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 17th 2019 at 1:34:22 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#95178: Jan 17th 2019 at 1:35:55 PM

I don't know shit about Moon Girl, but I'll agree with the complaints about the oversaturation os super-geniuses.

It's uniqueness decay, through and through, and the tech level has gotten so big there's virtually no difference between them, it's all just random gadgets, all the time.

I wish they'd specialize a bit, you know? Like make Reed the super physics guy, Tony the super engineer, Peter the super chemist, so on.

If everyone is a science genius, the no one is!! Comic writers don't even know what an actual genious is like in the first place!

@Sharknado: Not gonna lie, that was a dick move.

Edited by HailMuffins on Jan 17th 2019 at 6:37:43 AM

nombretomado (Season 1) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#95179: Jan 17th 2019 at 1:36:35 PM

~SonOfSharknado, penalty called on strawmanning. Five yards.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#95180: Jan 17th 2019 at 1:39:21 PM

@Swanpride: Just put him with his comedy partner Hercules.

Though that seems a better idea for a TV series than a movie.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#95181: Jan 17th 2019 at 1:39:45 PM

What is Moon Girls thing anyway?

[up] Man I would watch that. It be the modern-day Hercules.

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 17th 2019 at 1:40:18 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#95183: Jan 17th 2019 at 1:46:21 PM

Okay, so I was really confused by people mentioning that Moon Girl is black and a genius, and then I looked up Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur, apparently for the first time in my life.

This is Moon Girl. She is a black Inhuman child prodigy genius who lives in the modern day.

This is who I thought Moon Girl was all this time, a gender-swapped version of Moon Boy. Moon Boy is an Homo habilis, still covered in fur and not wearing clothes. He's a "mutant", which here means "the first human". His abilities are slightly higher than average intelligence and mild super strength.

Honestly, I was kind of wanting to see the adventures of Moon Girl, prehistoric ape-girl, and her partner Devil Dinosaur. Maybe she can team up with the present Moon Girl and have adventures. I was totally ready to believe that Marvel had made a Homo habilis into the smartest person on Earth, too.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#95184: Jan 17th 2019 at 1:46:22 PM

Now I'm wondering, is there a thing in the comics where all of these child prodigies form a group?

Like a Junior Illuminati?

This song needs more love.
HalfFaust Since: Jan, 2019
#95185: Jan 17th 2019 at 1:47:33 PM

Moon Girl is; yet another 'smartest one', except younger than usual, a new partner for Devil Dinosaur and a reluctant new-Inhuman (her power was body-swapping with Devil but a fair chunk of her series was pre-terrigenesis)

I don't think there's been a full on Illuminati Jr but there were some undertones with the Champions (Viv was living computer, Cho is one of the super-smart, Kamala is kind of normal-smart, Nova very conspicuously wasn't).

Edited by HalfFaust on Jan 17th 2019 at 1:49:46 AM

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#95186: Jan 17th 2019 at 1:48:52 PM

I wonder, has no one brought attention to the fact that, in the comics, the Avengers having all these adolescents in the team is pretty much them making use of child soldiers?

HalfFaust Since: Jan, 2019
#95187: Jan 17th 2019 at 1:52:03 PM

It's kind of one of those 'don't look at it too hard' things, as the adults initially disproving of them but eventually coming round and letting them keep operating is a plot point for basically every young hero. Maybe makes sense for the Young Avengers (16-18, formed on their own and were clearly going to keep operating with or without approval) but once you get younger and/or a proper Avengers team it is pretty dubious, yes. I suppose something like Peter in the MCU maybe has the excuse of 'there aren't that many powered people' but in the comics it gets weird.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#95188: Jan 17th 2019 at 1:54:02 PM

[up][up] The Avengers usually don't allow heroes younger than a certain age. Rage was kicked out because even though he looked eighteen, he was actually thirteen (long story). Kamala, Miles, and Sam Alexander were all made Avengers pretty much because it was a team where the older generation was teaching the younger generation.

Edited by alliterator on Jan 17th 2019 at 1:54:11 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#95189: Jan 17th 2019 at 2:04:18 PM

So is there a equivalent to DC's Teen titians?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#95190: Jan 17th 2019 at 2:05:01 PM

Yeah, the teen hero stuff is more the X-Men's area of expertise, by necessity, as they have to prepare mutants from a very young age on how to survive in a world that hates them.

(Which make's Wolverine's reasoning to hate Cyclops during and after Schism totally nonsensical, since the X-Men had children fighting pretty much from Day 1)

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#95191: Jan 17th 2019 at 2:06:05 PM

Spider-Man in the current MCU practically counts as a child soldier that Tony recruited to fight his enemies. Doesn't exactly make him look good. The How It Should Have Ended for Homecoming points this out rather bluntly. Peter was 14 in Civil War and 15 when Tony offered him a position in the Avengers. That's kind of dark even for him.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 17th 2019 at 5:06:56 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#95192: Jan 17th 2019 at 2:08:02 PM

Eh, I mean Pete was already active before, it's not that Tony pushed him into becoming a superhero.

But seriously, there was really no in-story reason whatsoever for Tony to recruit him. It was just to introduce Spidey into the MCU.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#95193: Jan 17th 2019 at 2:10:26 PM

Tony did it because he wanted a way to capture cap and co without hurting them. Spiderman with his webs was perfect for that purpose. I am actually more angry about Natasha bringing Black Panther to the fight.

There are the Young Avengers, right?

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#95194: Jan 17th 2019 at 2:12:08 PM

And I'm mad at Bruce Banner for not bringing Hulk along

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#95195: Jan 17th 2019 at 2:12:23 PM

And the Runaways^^

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#95196: Jan 17th 2019 at 2:20:05 PM

So is there a equivalent to DC's Teen titians?
Variously, there has been the New Warriors, the Young Avengers, and the Champions, all comprised of teenage superheroes. (The Runaways, too, but they aren't exactly superheroes, but more...well, runaways.)

Edited by alliterator on Jan 17th 2019 at 2:20:27 AM

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#95197: Jan 17th 2019 at 3:20:04 PM

So is there any bug where the site unfollows a thread for you?

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#95198: Jan 17th 2019 at 3:26:01 PM

Tony also spends a sizeable chunk of Civil War remiding Pete he's supposed to stay in the sidelines webbing people from a distance, but he insists on fighting in the thick of it.

All things considered, it was a pretty low-risk situation compared to the standards of "a bunch of superhumans duking it out", as no one seemed to be really gunning for lethality except Vision and Wanda on occasion.

Edited by Gaon on Jan 17th 2019 at 3:27:01 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#95199: Jan 17th 2019 at 3:36:00 PM

Homecoming cast an Author's Saving Throw or two at that problem. Homecoming has Stark strongly assert that he was only comfortable bringing Peter because he knew Cap wouldn't hurt the kid, while also rejecting the idea of Peter fighting actual supervillains. It makes Peter's situation into less of a sidekick role and more like an internship.

There's even a protocol in Peter's suit literally called the "Training Wheels Protocol", with the implication that Peter's supposed to take a few years to learn the ins and outs before he's actually ready to throw down in the big leagues.

Infinity War, however, was kinda wishy-washy on it. Which is to be expected, given that it was written and directed by the same team that created the problem in Civil War. In that movie, Stark tries to keep Peter from going into space with him - indeed, Peter only gets the fancy new suit so Stark can blow the parachute and get him back to Earth. But Stark doesn't seem to have any problem with ordering him to fight the deadly murder-aliens in New York, which is what led to Peter being in that position in the first place.

And you can't excuse that one by saying Stark knew the Children of Thanos wouldn't hurt the kid.

So the "child soldiers" thing is Depending on the Writer, marking possibly the MCU's first instance of two creative teams having violently different interpretations of a plot point and squaring off in-canon, as they do so frequently in the comics.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 17th 2019 at 4:38:40 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#95200: Jan 17th 2019 at 3:39:26 PM

It was a bad idea on Stark’s part, even if he didn’t expect it to turn into a big fight. He didn’t just take a 15-year-old into a fight against Cap, he took a 15-year old into a fight against someone who was (as far as Tony knew) a brainwashed super-assassin.

It’s not his fault Peter got caught up in Infinity War - Tony deliberately tried to keep him out of the fight, and Peter deliberately stayed in it.

But what really gets me is Nick Fury, in the Far From Home trailers, forcibly recruiting a minor to do SHIELD’s job. Fury has no business telling Peter to do anything at all, especially not something dangerous. He’s a schoolkid for goodness’ sakes! Fury’s deliberately sending a child into combat, as an (unofficial) agent of a quasi-military/spec-ops organization! That’s against freakin’ international law!

Edited by Galadriel on Jan 17th 2019 at 6:43:44 AM


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