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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

eligram Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: In denial
#94726: Jan 14th 2019 at 5:07:33 PM

Maybe Ross didn't point out the incident with Hulk in Johannesburg because he knew and wanted to avoid being called called by his hypocrisy with all the collateral damage in his hunt of the Hulk, or the whole thing with the Abomination.

Or you know, it was the next example he was going to show if Cap didn't stop him.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#94727: Jan 14th 2019 at 5:27:36 PM

Pretty sure there were other vids, but Cap saw how badly that was affecting Wanda and cut the whole thing short.

Besides, the point had already been made.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#94728: Jan 14th 2019 at 6:12:03 PM

"exactly, makes her super sympathetic?"

....Really? aside for that women who talk about how it will breaking the weak one, Natasha asking what would happen if she fail or how she is "pretending to fail" and she saying she have no place in the world..

I mean cmon, nothing in that flashback paint her as anything less than a victim of the red room which is fine, she is complex chararter but she also did bad stuff and I dont trust Marvel to deliver in that because is how Marvel rolls.

And about africa....I feel people are finding a watstonian answer to a doylist question: that fight does not any favor to the avengers and it shift to much the debate into ross favour, EVEN if ross is a hipocrite the point is already made(the fact Ross is already there is already a strike against any good conversation happeing).

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
MedusaStone Since: Jan, 2015
#94729: Jan 14th 2019 at 6:38:01 PM

Okay, can someone send me a link to the scene where Wanda and/or Pietro confirm that they knew ahead of time that they were dealing with HYDRA and willingly joined anyway? Because I'm getting really tired of seeing people say some version of "Well, she joined a Nazi organization, so..." to pass Wanda off as an unrepentant villain from the very beginning, without substantiating the claim. I was given to understand that they believed they were dealing with legitimate representatives of the Sokovian government, and it wasn't until after they'd been thoroughly imprisoned that they learned what was actually going on.

And if my understanding is actually correct...well. If someone's just determined to hate Wanda Maximoff, surely they can do that without making things up?

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#94730: Jan 14th 2019 at 6:43:03 PM

[up]So far there isnt anything like that, just a moment were they debrief Cap about them and their habilities and Cap is sympathic of because he can get the idea of someone subjecting itself into a experiment to defend what they thing is their home.

Which is nice and all but it is still HYDRA at the end of the day.

Edited by unknowing on Jan 14th 2019 at 10:43:34 AM

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#94731: Jan 14th 2019 at 6:58:36 PM

I don't think there's anything indicating they knew that HYDRA were the ones they volunteered to get powers from. The Stinger in Winter Soldier at least seemed to suggest that they were being held against their will after they got their powers.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#94732: Jan 14th 2019 at 7:02:25 PM

[up]That can be talk to the fact they were still controling their powers(we see Pietro running over one place to the next) and she still mind wham Cap and Tony so she dosent seen to mind.

Also there much organization that can pull what they did to them, isnt?.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#94733: Jan 14th 2019 at 7:13:25 PM

They joined HYDRA for two reasons. The first was to get superpowers and help their home country. The second was to get revenge on Tony Stark. There's no indication they knew they were joining HYDRA at first, and it looks like HYDRA held them captive after they got their abiities. They still fought the Avengers, but more because Tony Stark is a member of the Avengers, not that they wanted to protect HYDRA.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jan 14th 2019 at 8:14:01 AM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#94734: Jan 14th 2019 at 7:29:15 PM

There was a tie-in comic that explicitly showed that they had no idea that HYDRA was behind the experiments, and by the time they figured it out, it was too late to back out.

In fact, it was Wanda who was hesitant to volunteer for their experiments and Pietro was the one who convinced her to go through with it.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Jan 14th 2019 at 10:29:34 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#94735: Jan 14th 2019 at 7:46:26 PM

[up]

That sounds about right.

And then Tony Stark showed up and they fought because Fuck him and his buddies the Avengers.

So once again, all Tony's fault.tongue

Speaking of which, while I take any and every opportunity to blame Tony for all the bad things that happen, I do love his armour.

I've always liked Powered Armour however, so that's no shock. That being said, which armour do you guys like most, aesthetically speaking (not just in terms of abilities, since every new one is technically superior to the previous version), but mainly in terms of how it looks.

For me, it's The Mark VII, aka The Battle of New York Armour.

It's got the circle chest plate, it's got good amounts of red and yellow in all the right places, it's got shoulder thrusters so our boy Tony can fly and fire at the same damn time, and there's just about it that makes Rob say keep this design, all the time! Don't ever change it!

...Well, that dream died, but still.

So what armour design from Tony Stark, greatest villain of the MCU do you like the most?

Edit: also, I found this:

Edited by HandsomeRob on Jan 14th 2019 at 8:56:06 AM

One Strip! One Strip!
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#94736: Jan 14th 2019 at 8:51:41 PM

You know, I never really looked at all of these in a row before. 10 years, 50 suits. Congratulations, Marvel.

I admit I have a soft spot for some of the really fugly Iron Legion suits — the ones with big claws ("Southpaw") or piledriver arms ("Fiddler"), or the ones where the chest blaster looks like it's bolted on ("Tiger"), or the ones with the really garish paint jobs (check out those flames), or the ones that look like Mass Effect DLC... and, of course, the Max Max/Rocketeer look of the Mark I.

So the more streamlined the suits get, the less I like usually like them. But I do like the Mark XLV. The less metallic coloring and rounded edges give it a kind of hand-sculpted quality which I actually find more futuristic than chrome. Change up the helmet and it's pretty close to the suit from the original Ultimates, now that I think of it.

Edited by Unsung on Jan 14th 2019 at 10:11:16 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#94737: Jan 14th 2019 at 8:55:50 PM

Are the tie in comic canon?.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#94738: Jan 14th 2019 at 9:07:36 PM

[up] I think the official policy is that they're canon until proven otherwise. The films and shows take priority, and the comics mostly try to fill in minor gaps between films.

Also, I never realized how odd a lot of the suits in Iron Man 3 looked until now. They got so many mismatched colors and designs, but you'd never notice it because the climax takes place entirely at night.

I like the Mark XXV and the Mark XXXVIII though. They're the first of the Iron Legion that pop into my head.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Jan 14th 2019 at 12:13:13 PM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#94739: Jan 14th 2019 at 9:16:33 PM

[up]I see, im still iffy on that "Wanda didnt know" because it seen like author saving throw but anyway, I never said she was evil, just that narratives kinda shut what she did into a corner.

And those armour desing you can place the blame to stark half assing him for is PTDS, I really which we could have seen is other armours but I guess is too late for it.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#94740: Jan 14th 2019 at 9:41:13 PM

Igor (the blue hunchback) is another good one.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#94741: Jan 14th 2019 at 9:46:49 PM

[up]I like that one and I laught he call it like that in the movie, I really love iron man 3

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#94742: Jan 14th 2019 at 10:05:00 PM

Skipped a good chunk of recent pages.

I'm inclined to believe that Ross was being honest when he said he learned perspective post-heart attack and depressive funk. I think his biggest concern with Hulk now is just that he's an uncontrolled, unsupervised danger, similar to his thoughts on Thor.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#94743: Jan 14th 2019 at 10:57:40 PM

Maybe Ross just didn't bring up the Hulk in Johannesburg because 1) the Hulk is no longer with the Avengers, and 2) recognizes that whether the Hulk is too dangerous to be allowed free reign, and whether the non-rage monster Avengers are too dangerous to be allowed free reign, are really separate issues.

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#94744: Jan 14th 2019 at 11:03:13 PM

Maybe I'm forgetting something, but was Ross responsible in any way for what happened in Johannesburg with the Hulk? He didn't really need to bring it up, did he?

Edited by hardcorefakes on Jan 14th 2019 at 1:04:53 PM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#94745: Jan 14th 2019 at 11:06:19 PM

[up][up]The fact that Hulk is not avenger is a issue because the hulk RUN AWAY, with the quinjet, and it he was one when the fight happen.

The fight is pretty much the weak point of the avenger: Hulk hurt people, tony have to contain him and Wanda, the person who caused is part of the avenger now, by all account the group was reckless.

[up]No, it was Wanda who brainwashing him in order to used as distraction to ultron to escape

Edited by unknowing on Jan 14th 2019 at 3:08:31 PM

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#94746: Jan 15th 2019 at 3:35:39 AM

It's kind of pointless to bring up the rampage of Hulk when Hulk isn't even there. Which was Ross point in his "how could you lose two nukes" speech.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#94747: Jan 15th 2019 at 3:37:52 AM

If Ross is criticizing them for losing Hulk, bringing up his rampage in Johannesburg is very much on point.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#94748: Jan 15th 2019 at 4:04:32 AM

Not really, since they knew where Hulk was before the rampage, plus, that just reflects on his own mistake in Harlem.

On top of this: Nobody died in Johannesburg. Lots of property damage is bad, but remember, Tony paid for it.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#94749: Jan 15th 2019 at 4:06:38 AM

Hulk's ability to avoid actually killing innocent people during his rampages might seem weird, but it's actually something from the comics. Supposedly, the Hulk still retains Banner's genius and subconsciously calculates the trajectories and force of everything he wrecks to ensure that no one he doesn't want to hurt gets hurt. Meaning if the Hulk hurts someone, it's because the Hulk wanted to hurt them.

The one time this was supposedly not the case — the gov't got a grieving mother who lost her child due to a bus being thrown in a Hulk vs. Abomination fight to join the Gamma Corp by claiming the Hulk threw the bus — turned out to be a lie. The Abomination was the one who actually threw it. She was appalled since not only was she hunting the wrong person, but her gamma mutation made half her body look like the Abomination.

Edited by M84 on Jan 15th 2019 at 8:10:36 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#94750: Jan 15th 2019 at 4:13:30 AM

That's a pretty dumb explanation that was only ever used in 1 run, if I remember correctly, making this a Depending on the Writer thing. As for the MCU Hulk, he has killed. In the Incredible Hulk movie, he was directly mentioned to be responsible for the deaths of several military units. And his fight against the army in the park also definitely caused some casualties. As for Johannesburg, we already had that discussion. It was never actually mentioned whether there were casualties or not. The only argument was that Ross didn't mention it in Civil War, which isn't really much of an argument since he also discounted other events. It's up for the viewer to decide. Me, given how incredibly torn up Bruce was afterwards, thinks that there were some deaths.

Edited by Forenperser on Jan 15th 2019 at 1:14:24 PM

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