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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#94701: Jan 14th 2019 at 2:25:12 PM

Zemo has the same problem the rest of the film has: Civil War is a movie that's only read the Cliff's Notes on the previous films. "The Helicarrier fight in D.C., uh, Cap probably got some people killed there, whatever. Oh, and Age of Ultron had that climax where the Avengers, like, I bet they were just blowing shit up left and right like Man of Steel."

It foregoes actual literal references to the other films like the Hulk smashing Johannesburg or Tony building Ultron in favor of Broad Strokes mentions that some battles happened, and the point about the Avengers being dangerous is made lesser for it.

It's just weird to watch Age of Ultron, see the Avengers doing everything in their power to protect civilians and minimize casualties, and then move on to Civil War where the Avengers are bad people for not giving a single shit about civilian casualties and just wrecking Sokovia for kicks.

To be fair, I think the point is that:

1) Those examples were being cherry picked by Ross, pointing out the destruction that comes in their battles while ignoring why they happened;

2) People at ground zero are just gonna see the Avengers flying around wrecking shit and get mad when it affects them, especially if people they care for die;

and 3) Tony's massive guilt complex, combined with the fact that he is responsible for Ultron means he'll genuinely feel they HE didn't do enough.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#94702: Jan 14th 2019 at 2:33:15 PM

Those examples being cherry-picked by Ross doesn't work for me, because he doesn't mention Johannesburg. The Hulk rampaging through Johannesburg until Iron Man stopped him is a perfect cherry-picked example of "Avengers causing collateral damage" that isn't entirely fair to hold against them but can look bad when you put a screenshot of the damage up on a screen.

He talks about New York, Washington D.C., and Sokovia, but he never mentions Johannesburg. He even segues into a point about it being irresponsible for the Avengers to have lost track of the Hulk, but never brings up the Hulk's rampage in Johannesburg. Or the fact that the woman who made him do it is sitting at this table, listening to him talk about how dangerous they are.

General Ross, a man who dedicated his life to hating the Hulk, who has a point to make about how dangerous the Hulk is during this conversation, never once mentions that the Hulk went on a rampage and destroyed part of a city during the course of a recent Avengers mission. He'd rather whine about Helicarriers falling into the Potomac, because I don't think the Russos actually watched that movie.

Their seeming apathy towards any film they weren't personally involved in is greatly to the detriment of this film which, more than any other film in the MCU save for "Infinity War", is directly driven from the events of the past movies.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 14th 2019 at 3:34:52 AM

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Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#94703: Jan 14th 2019 at 2:34:39 PM

Tony being mentally influenced by Wanda does call into some question how responsible he is for activating Ultron. It does not, however, steer the blame away from Bruce, who had no mental influence and yet went forward with Tony’s plan anyway.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#94704: Jan 14th 2019 at 2:38:26 PM

Bruce was basically Tony's lab assistant for it, though. His big project was Vision, and that turned out great.

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Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
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#94705: Jan 14th 2019 at 2:41:02 PM

Was taking the bins out and a thought occurred to me,what you think Dr.Strange was doing during the period when the Avengers were fighting Ultron?

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#94706: Jan 14th 2019 at 2:44:05 PM

Surgery.

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Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#94707: Jan 14th 2019 at 2:44:47 PM

Assistant, yes, but he still could’ve made an effort to inform the others, especially Thor. Bruce has witnessed himself how risky the scepter can be.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jan 14th 2019 at 2:46:23 AM

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#94708: Jan 14th 2019 at 2:45:09 PM

I've also complained about CW completely ignoring Wanda's actions in AOU as well, especially since it then paints her as the poor persecuted victim for a big chunk of the film.

AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#94709: Jan 14th 2019 at 2:52:39 PM

Technically it was Christopher Markus and Stephen Mc Feely who wrote the screenplay for Civil War and Infinity War. /pedantry

I'm considering replacing my posters for those two movies since I don't really have a great deal of love for either of them. Maybe with Spider-Verse and Captain Marvel.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#94710: Jan 14th 2019 at 2:53:36 PM

Hey if you don't want em I'll take em.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Brandon Deadly Vu! from Between Thanksgiving and Christmas (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Deadly Vu!
#94711: Jan 14th 2019 at 3:39:38 PM

Me and a friend think the real reason Ross hates the Hulk so much is simply because Banner was in a relationship with his daughter. And he hates The Avengers because "guilty by association".

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unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#94712: Jan 14th 2019 at 3:47:36 PM

@Tobias: I will said that this point showing Nat as the atone is pointless: we have what, four? five movies with her? and so far she is a stright up hero, maybe one more pragmatic and somewhat cold and laconic(in short, female batman), for me that ship have sailed a long time ago.

And in fact film rarely make a women protagonist anti hero or a villian, often they make her more heroic, just look the adaptation of carmen san diego for example.

I dont think is gonna happen, Marvel have being pretty much in the side of lightedhearted movies or total comedies, going that route is not their style.

"even tho other media has shown audiences will eat it up (cough *breakjng bad )"

That is not a good example because it start him as good, if a somewhat boring teacher who have cancer, he is pretty much force into it at first, asuring to the public he is likable(to a extend).

I got the exact opposite, that after some hesitation, she ended up not caring who she hurt."

....no, the flashback just may her sympathic, showing the brutality of the red room, is easy to excuse Nat on that.

"It's hard to tell if he blames the Avengers for not stopping Ultron before he could turn Sokovia into a meteor, for not doing enough to help Sokovians in the aftermath, or just for existing and bringing about threats like Ultron."

Zemo state he dosent care about sokovia at all, just is family....which in itself it look like a nice way for the film to doge the fact sokovia was the avengers fault(or at least, their responsability).

Edited by unknowing on Jan 14th 2019 at 7:58:07 AM

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Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#94713: Jan 14th 2019 at 3:55:26 PM

> Ross hates the Hulk so much is simply because Banner was in a relationship with his daughter

But is it out protectiveness or envy of Hulk's strength? (It's probably both)

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alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#94714: Jan 14th 2019 at 4:07:46 PM

....no, the flashback just may her sympathic, showing the brutality of the red room, is easy to excuse Nat on that.
Which flashback does that?

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#94715: Jan 14th 2019 at 4:10:58 PM

[up]The flashback/ilusion wanda gave it, we see how the red room broke her and reformed into assasin, is the oposite of what Tobia sugest.

the only moment is implied nat did something bad was when he talk with Loki and said she is red numbers and something about a hospital.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#94716: Jan 14th 2019 at 4:20:18 PM

Ross in The Incredible Hulk is shown to disdain the kind of person Banner is, to really disdain the fact that someone like Banner ended up with the power of the Hulk, and to really, really hate the fact that his daughter thinks someone like Banner is a better man than someone like himself.

In a perfect world, he would've been fine with someone like Blonksy being the Hulk and/or being with his daughter. Which is the kind of thinking that ends up creating Abomination in the first place.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 14th 2019 at 4:24:33 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#94717: Jan 14th 2019 at 4:26:12 PM

I recall MCU Ross also saying he would absolutely jail Betsy if she weren’t his daughter.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#94718: Jan 14th 2019 at 4:29:38 PM

All Hell will break out if they ever adapt Red Hulk.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#94719: Jan 14th 2019 at 4:36:38 PM

"It's just weird to watch Age of Ultron, see the Avengers doing everything in their power to protect civilians and minimize casualties, and then move on to Civil War where the Avengers are bad people for not giving a single shit about civilian casualties and just wrecking Sokovia for kicks.

"

is not they no pay atention, what they did was on purpose because otherwise the avenger lose the moral ground: the fact Wanda join a nazi organization to fight the avengers, the fact she influence Tony which let to the creation of Ultron with Banner, which let battle of south africa which also let to Sokovia, have zemo said "I want to avenge sokovia" then he would have the moral ground.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#94720: Jan 14th 2019 at 4:37:18 PM

[up][up] TBH, I'd prefer Red She Hulk more than Red Hulk at this juncture. I really like where Ross is as an antagonist right now, and I feel like giving him an opportunity to just cut all that and go all fully evil berserker would ruin the role he has.

[up][up][up] IIRC, it was less "I want to put you in jail, but you're my daughter" and more "this might have put you in jail, but I'm protecting you."

He generally treats Becky more like a teenager who's led astray by a silly crush than as a grown woman who has made her own decisions and hates his guts for the ones he's made. There's a big, patronizing sense of "see? now your boyfriend is getting locked up, and if it weren't for me you'd be with him. So stop this foolishness and come home!" there.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 14th 2019 at 4:40:11 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#94721: Jan 14th 2019 at 4:41:37 PM

It's unlikely we'll ever see different types of Hulk due to poor reception of the Hulk films,since that's where directors would that particular avenue,closest they came was the Abomination

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alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#94722: Jan 14th 2019 at 4:44:29 PM

The flashback/ilusion wanda gave it, we see how the red room broke her and reformed into assasin, is the oposite of what Tobia sugest.
Okay, but there is no flashback that shows her as super sympathetic and that "the only reason why she did bad things was because of the Red Room." Here, in fact, are the flashbacks for Natasha:

Ballet Instructor: [to the students] Again.
Natasha Romanoff: You'll break them.
Madame B: Only the breakable ones. You are made of marble. We'll celebrate after the graduation ceremony.
Natasha Romanoff: What if I fail? [we see a younger Natasha being trained to be an assassin]
Madame B: You never fail.


Madame B: Sloppy. Pretending to fail. The ceremony is necessary for you to take your place in the world.
Natasha Romanoff: I have no place in the world.
Madame B: Exactly.

So tell me: what flashback, exactly, makes her super sympathetic?

Edited by alliterator on Jan 14th 2019 at 4:44:45 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#94723: Jan 14th 2019 at 4:45:18 PM

I actually think She Hulk (regular, green Shulkie, that is) herself has some potential to show up. We're only not allowed to solo Hulk films, but if the characters themselves appear in other stories that's cool.

So Jennifer Walters could, say, be the Fantastic Four's lawyer. And then, sometime during their film, an accident could happen that results in her needing a blood transfusion. And then, eventually in a later movie...

She-Hulk is maybe the only Hulk character besides Rick Jones who could adequately work predominantly within the confines of a non-Hulk series. Especially an ensemble work like Fantastic Four, which she has comic history with, because that would allow her to be developed there as part of the ensemble itself.

It's unlikely we'll ever see different types of Hulk due to poor reception of the Hulk films,since that's where directors would that particular avenue,closest they came was the Abomination

The reception of The Incredible Hulk is not the reason why we haven't gotten more Hulk content. Universal still has distribution rights to solo Hulk films, so Disney isn't making solo Hulk films.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 14th 2019 at 4:46:56 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#94724: Jan 14th 2019 at 4:52:41 PM

They may have the distribution rights but I imagine Disney knows how previous Hulk films haven't exactly been successful,so they're even if they had the full rights they'd still be hesitant to make Hulk the focus,unless they really good director on board

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KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#94725: Jan 14th 2019 at 5:01:36 PM

It's not particularly characteristic of them to make a call like that. It's not like Iron Man 2 or Thor 2 put the kibosh on either of those series. Thor 2 especially. Likewise, even if some of their current rush of live action films fail, the project overall still goes strong because they understand that a single misstepped film doesn't mean the idea can't work.

The only comparison I can think of it Solo's poor reception putting the downside on most of Star Wars' other side-movie projects. But even then, the situation is different: Solo bombed, while TIH was still moderately successful, just less so than the others, and Disney was in the midst of restructuring the future of Star Wars in the first place (most of the cancelled projects were speculative).

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 14th 2019 at 5:06:06 AM


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