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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#94451: Jan 12th 2019 at 1:45:28 AM

[up]The point if they adress the point, which i feel they wont, I mean raganrok pretty much forgive everyone: Odin, Loki, Valkyre.

if she is allow to that at least adress it.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#94452: Jan 12th 2019 at 1:50:45 AM

No, Ragnarok just gave them a chance to change. For Odin at least, he was only able to find peace near the end of his life.

Disgusted, but not surprised
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#94453: Jan 12th 2019 at 1:52:58 AM

[up]Whhich is neat for him....but Im arguing if he deserve it.

For me he cross the moral evident horizon with that, specially because after he dies thor and loki must deal with is unfinish buissnes and yet he still appear as short of wise figure for Odin.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#94454: Jan 12th 2019 at 1:54:51 AM

Nobody deserves redemption.

You only get it if you want it & are willing to work for it.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#94455: Jan 12th 2019 at 1:55:30 AM

[up][up]He suffered the consequences of his mistakes. His death is the culmination of all of them: keeping Hela sealed drained his lifeforce and lying to Loki his whole life rather than being honest with him bit him in the ass big time.

Odin paid for his mistakes, and owned up to them.

[up]Redemption and forgiveness are not things you can earn. They can only be given.

Edited by M84 on Jan 12th 2019 at 5:56:10 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#94456: Jan 12th 2019 at 1:57:58 AM

It’s a whole factor of things really.

Good amount of shades & facets.

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 12th 2019 at 1:58:30 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#94457: Jan 12th 2019 at 2:08:23 AM

[up][up]You see....I dont belive it, Odin was king for asgard, manage to Plunder and destroy all realms and even when eh repent he sill mantain the power of asgard, Hela is something he should have said and he only provoke problem to everyone, also some of is dialogue turn very awfull after raganrok.

And redemption IS given and earned, more to be more clear: you can be given the change to redempt and I dont think he was given that change because nobody knew about is crime until it was to late for it.

He got away with is shit and them thor and loki have to deal with the fallout.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#94458: Jan 12th 2019 at 2:08:45 AM

One of the points of the movie is everyone finding out Odin's history only after his death. Whether Odin was actually a good person or not was kind of a minor mystery in the film, and it ended on an ambiguous note with Odin.

Also, a major point was that the reason Hela was sealed away is because Odin had a change of heart and she didn't want to change. The Valkyries chose Odin's side, to stop the colonization, and they almost all died to Hela for it.

As an aside, it's odd that people here claim that Hela was "the god of killing really well" and not really "the god of death" when she literally resurrected an undead army at one point. Like, that's pretty clear "god of death" powers right there.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#94459: Jan 12th 2019 at 2:16:35 AM

[up]I will guess my issue with is that Odin have a more calm death he should deserved for is misdeed, specially the fact Hela didnt actually kill him or talk with him and Thor and loki are to disconected of the whole drama to even metter.

I feel hela exist in part as pierce in WI: to critizce the "good chararter" without having to do so, is funny in that both Odin and Fury lack a eye.

It seen losing a eye make you shady in marvel universe.

Also, Hela used the flame so she cheat it.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#94460: Jan 12th 2019 at 3:12:08 AM

Hela literally could not have had the opportunity to talk with Odin or kill him herself, his death is what triggered her release. That is the most absurd criticism of that movie I've ever heard.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jan 12th 2019 at 4:12:30 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#94461: Jan 12th 2019 at 3:15:59 AM

[up]is more a thematic one, the could have change that so she could get out and odin still being alive.

More important, Thor and Loki have no conection to her at all, so it harm a lot of problem in general.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#94462: Jan 12th 2019 at 3:20:43 AM

There is nothing more that can be said between the two.

Hela will never stop being a conqueror so any attempts at talking is just wasted oxygen.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#94463: Jan 12th 2019 at 3:26:42 AM

I really do wish that Hela survived Ragnarok. Without Asgard, she wouldn't be as strong, so she wouldn't be able to conquer other realms, but she could conquer one realm as her own: Hel.

...sure, we've never seen an afterlife in the MCU before, but bringing the MCU more in line with the comics would I think be more interesting. Plus, it would dovetail neatly with my theory that Thor will end up using the Soul Stone to make all of the dead Asgardians reincarnate in new bodies (hence how Loki can still be alive without time travel).

And then we can have the adventures of Kid Loki and Leah the Handmaiden.

Edited by alliterator on Jan 12th 2019 at 3:27:14 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#94464: Jan 12th 2019 at 3:32:37 AM

[up][up]quite the contrary, there is much that can be said between the two, specially since Odin raise hela all her life, therefore, why she should change? isnt the power and wealth asgard enjoy thanks to her? why she should be forgotten while the other two brother squable over the kindom?.

and that is only what she could said to him.

[up]I will said that in order to do that thor movie have to be invest more in 9 kindoms and that didnt happen.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#94465: Jan 12th 2019 at 3:36:32 AM

I will said that in order to do that thor movie have to be invest more in 9 kindoms and that didnt happen.
There reason there are only nine realms is because that's when Odin stopped conquering. Hela planned to conquer all the realms, implying there was a lot more than just nine (and implying each realm was actually a planet).

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#94466: Jan 12th 2019 at 3:39:56 AM

Well considering she wants to kill/conquer everything, that's prolly a good reason why. There is nothing to be said when talking to a maniac. No justifications, no nothing, they know each other too well. Its all a given at this point.

When Thor basically enacted genocide on the Frost Giants Odin lost his shit & punished him accordingly and did the same to Loki after he went crazy.

Sure he may not be the best parent & was partially responsible for said rampages but at least he tried to stop the warning signs.

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 12th 2019 at 3:43:01 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#94467: Jan 12th 2019 at 3:51:57 AM

[up]Parcially? he started the age of asgardin imperalism and rise Hela along side of it, Hela is a madman but she is odin daughter after all.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#94468: Jan 12th 2019 at 3:55:38 AM

And he looked back on it, regretted it for whatever reasons, and made changes to himself.

Whilst Hela remained the same.

Whereas Odin realized he went too far, Hela never did and thought "there's never going too far."

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#94469: Jan 12th 2019 at 3:59:55 AM

Like I said, it's not like Odin gets away totally unscathed. Even though he tried to change, his past imperialism still continued to haunt him. And ultimately, his mistakes caught up with him.

Edited by M84 on Jan 12th 2019 at 8:00:06 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#94470: Jan 12th 2019 at 4:01:59 AM

His sons became wrecks, his wife died, his kingdom lies in shambles by the enemies he previously conquered, and he eventually gives his own life trying to prevent the return of his worst mistake.

All in all life became pretty shitty for him.

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 12th 2019 at 4:20:32 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#94471: Jan 12th 2019 at 4:17:49 AM

He also spent the last years or so of his life in a retirement home on Earth while not in his right mind thanks to Loki's magic.

Edited by M84 on Jan 12th 2019 at 8:18:24 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#94472: Jan 12th 2019 at 5:59:25 AM

Though truth be told, the fact that he swept all of his dark past under the rug is pretty questionable.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#94473: Jan 12th 2019 at 6:05:22 AM

And that bit him in the ass too since it meant that his sons and Asgard were woefully unprepared for Hela. With dire consequences.

Honestly, all three Thor movies could be summed up as "Odin's chickens coming to roost".

Edited by M84 on Jan 12th 2019 at 10:06:19 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#94474: Jan 12th 2019 at 6:24:38 AM

I still want to know where Hela was and what she's been doing all this time,unless he literally sealed her away so she was in stasis this whole time

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#94475: Jan 12th 2019 at 6:32:08 AM

Honestly, Ragnarok might make The Dark World better in hindsight because it makes "Odin fucked up and now a past enemy of his is out for revenge" a consistent theme across the whole series.

[up]She looked like she was in a pocket dimension of screams.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jan 12th 2019 at 7:32:42 AM


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