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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#94376: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:31:27 PM

And its not something that Priest pulled out of his arse: in Real Life, severely advanced countries that practice isolationism tend to be pretty behind-the-times when it comes to social issues.

The USA itself in an exemple, Japan is another one and if I bothered to go research more, I could come up with dozens more cases.

[down]That's Malice AKA Nakia.

Also a notable aversion of Double Standard: Rape, Female on Male.

Edited by HailMuffins on Jan 11th 2019 at 12:35:04 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#94377: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:32:52 PM

T'Challa never once treated them as wives-in-training and only ever as comrades.

The comics actually had one antagonist's motivation be that she was actually hoping to be his wife and disappointed that it wasn't going to happen.

Disgusted, but not surprised
indigoJay from The Astral Plane Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#94378: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:37:14 PM

The Dora are pretty cool and I certainly wouldn't object to a show on them, although I feel like we'll be getting a lot more of that in the movies. I'm interested to see what direction the Loki show goes in. Will it be at all similar to Agent of Asgard? Will it cover him being genderfluid? Will it be a mess? Who knows.

There is no war in Ba Sing Se.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#94379: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:38:36 PM

Man its so funny how Movie-Nakia is such a righteous person & in the comics she's a flat-out monster. [lol]

Adaptational Heroism can be quite amusing. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#94380: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:39:25 PM

I will say that I think that Okoye and Nakia are much better characters in the movie than they were in the comics.

Movie doesn't have Queen Divine Justice, though, so something of a trade-off there, I suppose.

Oh God! Natural light!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#94381: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:39:36 PM

Right there, that's the reason. He was clearly looking for a successor, and I don't know about you, but if I was gonna find successor for myself I wouldn't pick someone I don't care about, even less hate.
Yes, we know that he wanted her to be his successor...but we never learn why. Why does he love her? Is it just because she's a good fighter? Is there something else? Why should we care that he cares?

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#94382: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:41:36 PM

I think it's pretty obvious Thanos loves Gamora most of all because she's the one who resembled him the most (to his eyes). He basically spells this out in the throne room scene and then the one he outright tells Gamora all the awesome skills she has which came directly from him (says Thanos).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#94383: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:42:03 PM

Why should we care about anything?

Like the guy grew attached to her, he raised her, trained her, she excelled, he became proud, she became more like him at a time, & Brolin acted the Hell during it all.

[up] Shame they didn't keep that deleted scene of when she was his daughter.

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 11th 2019 at 7:42:46 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#94384: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:43:15 PM

I think it's pretty obvious Thanos loves Gamora most of all because she's the one who resembled him the most (to his eyes).
Physically? Because it can't be mentally, due to the fact that she rebelled against him. Surely doing the exact opposite of him would mean that she doesn't resemble him.

wolfofthewest Since: Dec, 2014
#94385: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:44:19 PM
Thumped: This post was thumped by moderation to preserve the dignity of the author.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#94386: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:44:53 PM

[up][up] So children never rebel & parents never maintain faith that their kids will eventually come back to them? tongue

He pretty much thinks she's just going through a phase which is typical Evil Parenting 101.

[up] Okay no offense but I am not reading this, its way tooooooooooo long.

[down] Oh right shit Thanos is a rebel too. Even more relating between the two. [lol]

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 11th 2019 at 7:47:47 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#94387: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:45:14 PM

Thanos thinks of himself as a kind of iconoclast. Hell, the whole Snap thing dates back to him going against what his entire planet and civilization told him.

Edited by Unsung on Jan 11th 2019 at 9:03:24 AM

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#94388: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:46:09 PM

[up][up][up]Oh no. A comic book has wish fulfillment for historically oppressed and disenfranchised people. The horror.

Cause all the magically-talented-in-ten-scientific-fields characters and Asgardian gods are way more realistic.

Edited by wisewillow on Jan 11th 2019 at 10:46:29 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#94389: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:46:20 PM

because the Dora Milaje are terrible. [...] the closest real world equivalent to the Dora Milaje are the Revolutionary Nuns (aka "Amazonian Brigade") of Muammar Gaddafi

The Dora Milaje are based on the Ahosi, a historical all-women king's guard of the Fon people in West Africa.

indigoJay from The Astral Plane Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#94390: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:46:32 PM

[up][up][up][up][up][up] I find it funny that in a universe where people have magic powers the "unrealistic part" that drives you crazy is that a nation could develop without trade.

Edited by indigoJay on Jan 11th 2019 at 10:47:09 AM

There is no war in Ba Sing Se.
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#94391: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:48:39 PM

Not to mention the whole point of Wakanda is to speculate (hence Speculative Fiction) on how an advanced African society would look like without European influence.

Edited by HailMuffins on Jan 11th 2019 at 12:50:01 PM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#94392: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:50:09 PM

Why should we care about anything?
We care about the characters that we've grown attached to since we've seen them struggle and ultimately triumph in their own stories. But even though we've seen him before, this is literally the first time we're hearing about Thanos's motivation and backstory and when it comes him "loving" Gamora, it just falls flat when compared to other relationships we've seen. We know why Quill loves Gamora, we know why Wanda and Vision are in a relationship (even if we only saw bits and pieces), but Thanos's "love" is entirely arbitrary. We don't see him do anything with his love — hell, even in the comics, he's shown affection for Gamora by giving her a doll, something he knows warriors don't need, but which she still wanted. But we see nothing like that in Infinity War. He loves her because he needs to sacrifice someone he loves and that's it.

So children never rebel & parents never maintain faith that their kids will eventually come back to them?
Thanos is not Gamora's father. He's a sociopath who killed her real parents and took her to turn her into a weapon.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#94393: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:52:14 PM

Physically? Because it can't be mentally, due to the fact that she rebelled against him. Surely doing the exact opposite of him would mean that she doesn't resemble him.

It's both. Thanos's entire screentime with Gamora is him trying to imply Gamora is exactly like him and this rebelling of hers is her trying to deny her true nature. He tends to treat her like a rebelling teenage going through a phase.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#94394: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:52:19 PM

Like, the whole point of Black Panther (2018) was criticizing Wakanda's isolationist policies and how it was not advancing the nation in a positive way. T'challa literally calls out the leaders of the past for abandoning the world and turning inward, and the film ends with him giving a speech at the UN about how important it is to strengthen and build connections with the rest of the world.

That's basically the entire message of the movie. I'm not sure how one misses that aspect.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Jan 11th 2019 at 10:53:57 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#94395: Jan 11th 2019 at 7:56:05 PM

Plus the flashback to their first encounter indicates Thanos' reasoning for taking her in.

It was a most likely rare random feeling of empathy for the young child and seeing the fighting spirit within her that reminded him of himself.

His comforting her, giving her the knife, and shielding her from watching her people get genocided was disturbingly sweet.

The fact he is responsible for all her troubles and he treats it as nothing is what makes the whole thing so fucked up.

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 11th 2019 at 7:57:54 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#94396: Jan 11th 2019 at 8:00:55 PM

It's extremely fucked up that Thanos genuinely thinks he did Gamora a favor.

Disgusted, but not surprised
wolfofthewest Since: Dec, 2014
#94397: Jan 11th 2019 at 8:04:42 PM
Thumped: This post was thumped by moderation to preserve the dignity of the author.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#94398: Jan 11th 2019 at 8:06:54 PM

[up][up] That’s what makes the whole thing so amazing.

I can buy that he genuinly loves her, it’s just he’s still a fucking monster no matter what.

It doesn’t matter how much he thinks of her as his child, he’s still the guy who unrepentantly made her an orphan in the first place.

It’s so Goddamn dysfunctional especially Gamora’s reaction to discovering that Thanos really does care greatly for her, pure utter disbelief & disgust, & it was beautiful. [lol]

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 11th 2019 at 8:08:19 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#94399: Jan 11th 2019 at 8:07:05 PM

Plus the flashback to their first encounter indicates Thanos' reasoning for taking her in.
It doesn't, really. We already know that he takes children from other races and turns them into weapons. Him doing the same for Kid Gamora doesn't indicate he cares about her, only about making her a weapon.

But now the explanation is basically that thousands of years ago some semi-nomadic pre-agrarian tribesmen found Green Rocks in the dirt and it made them super smart.
Um, no, the Vibranium didn't "make them super smart." It only gave them an advantage in terms of resources, not how to use those resources. Their smarts came completely from themselves.

I don't know movie you were watching, but it wasn't Black Panther.

Edited by alliterator on Jan 11th 2019 at 8:08:38 AM

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#94400: Jan 11th 2019 at 8:08:41 PM

Well, yeah, but the point is more or less that Thanos doesn't really understand the difference.


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