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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#94176: Jan 10th 2019 at 3:48:20 PM

Plus barring Gamora there was never really a right time to call him out.

The ones on Titan were busy trying to survive and prevent him from getting the Stone. That has higher precedence than calling him a crazy person.

And the ones on Earth literally just meet the guy for 2 minutes as he kicks their asses one by one.

Not a lot of good times there.

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 10th 2019 at 3:48:58 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#94177: Jan 10th 2019 at 3:49:43 PM

What I'm expecting is for everyone to confront Thanos with a bunch of evidence that it didn't work and he refuses to accept any of it.

This song needs more love.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#94178: Jan 10th 2019 at 3:52:07 PM

The quiet scene - short, but still heartfelt - where Thor and the Guardians silently and not-so-silently bonb over all the horrible things Thanos has done to them and others is still my favorite scene in the film.

[up] I'm expecting the universe to have simply gone to shit in the five year break, and Thanos to have to accept (or more likely, go insane with denial) that his madness has far from saved the galaxy, and may well have doomed it.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 10th 2019 at 3:54:36 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#94179: Jan 10th 2019 at 3:54:29 PM

You mean while Idiot Quill acts like an idiot in front of Thor?

Meh, not really. I mean, maybe for most of them, but not Quill.

And I'm not just saying this due to my (most likely eternal) grudge against him. Him and Thor butt heads more than anything....and Thor pretty much wins.

One Strip! One Strip!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#94180: Jan 10th 2019 at 3:55:21 PM

You mean while Idiot Quill acts like an idiot in front of Thor?

IIRC, the moment I'm talking about isn't interrupted by Quill. You're thinking very specifically of the part where Thor and Gamora trade backstories.

Come to think of it, there's a lot of good moments in the first half establishing how horrible Thanos is and how damaged the characters who encountered him are for the experience of having done so.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 10th 2019 at 3:56:11 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#94181: Jan 10th 2019 at 3:57:44 PM

Rocket really just bounces off everyone well.

Its pretty incredible for a little CG raccoon thing.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#94182: Jan 10th 2019 at 4:00:49 PM

That you can end (or very nearly end) a movie on a shot of a sad CG raccoon and have that work is quite the sign of how far we've come.

...Sounds strange when you say that out loud, but I'm being sincere.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#94183: Jan 10th 2019 at 4:01:11 PM

Oh, you mean with Rocket.

Yeah, that was good.

One Strip! One Strip!
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#94184: Jan 10th 2019 at 4:06:32 PM

With Thanos and his plan, I do think it's often forgotten that he is the villain of the movie. His plan is kinda meant to be dumb or at least pointlessly cruel-that's what makes him the villain of the movie. I do think, though, they might have overshot a little or at least not spelled out clearly enough why his plan sucks.

With the sympathy they give him, I think the point of it is less that his plan is good, but more to make the point that Thanos really does see himself as the good guy here and truly believes he's just trying to do what's right. This makes him a stark contrast to say, Red Skull, who is a Card-Carrying Villain.

Leviticus 19:34
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#94185: Jan 10th 2019 at 4:09:55 PM

I have 0 support for Thanos as tragic villain. It’s like when people try to humanize dictators- I don’t care if they were sincere or liked dogs!

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#94186: Jan 10th 2019 at 4:09:56 PM

[up][up][up][up] Indeed its pretty incredible.

Thanos himself is also an amazing achievement as to how far we've come in that regard.

Makes me the wish the Star Wars ST has good alien characters too.

[up] Real dictators lack his style & nutsack chin though. tongue

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 10th 2019 at 4:12:22 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#94187: Jan 10th 2019 at 4:11:56 PM

I do think Thanos is going to realize his whole plan didn't solve shit, but his reaction will be the flipside opposite of "let's try and fix this" and more of a Suicidal Cosmic Temper Tantrum as his mind slowly shatters when faced with the realization it was All for Nothing.

Edited by Gaon on Jan 10th 2019 at 4:12:08 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#94188: Jan 10th 2019 at 4:14:11 PM

[up][up][up][up] I remember Killmonger got the same treatment for a while. He's very much in the wrong and needs to be stopped, but it sympathetic and pitiable (especially if you know the kind of people he's based on), and so a surprisingly large number of fans jumped to the conclusion that the movie was actually on his side and was justifying all the things he did.

The result is an odd reading of the film, and both it, IW, and other examples make me think overall that modern general audiences aren't really used to moral ambiguity, especially the idea that villain can be wrong or awful people and still be sympathetic (Infinity War also hits upon the problem that audiences are not used to character who are clearly wrong succeeding) especially in the superhero genre: it often makes fanbases implode in approaching how to deal with it.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 10th 2019 at 4:20:33 AM

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#94189: Jan 10th 2019 at 4:20:36 PM

A Hero Throughout The Years

What Could Have Been

The Worst/Best Kind of Crossover

Glad to see I'm not the only one who misses Artist!Steve

Turns out there's actually quite a bit fanarts of the Avengers of dabooru, who knew?

BTW, all pages above are SFW-but the site itself is not, and it's also Japanese, so caution is adviced.

Edit: [up] Not really surprising, considering we live in a world that considers inflexibility and "Us vs Them" thinking normal, if not virtuous.

Edited by HailMuffins on Jan 10th 2019 at 9:23:12 AM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#94190: Jan 10th 2019 at 4:26:13 PM

So, I saw someone briefly bring potential threats for Phase 4 and onwards. One villain I think would be cool if they brought in would be Kang the Conqueror. I really liked how he was portrayed in The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes, wherein he was a tyrant who honestly wanted to save the world from being destroyed by the Avengers' actions. He was cruel, but smart, and legitimately loved Princess Ravonna and wanted to save her from being erased from the timeline. I feel he could make a compelling villain if brought over to the MCU.

Of course, I've also seen people on this thread have... less than favorable responses to possibility of time travel in the series. So, I may be alone on this front.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#94191: Jan 10th 2019 at 4:27:20 PM

I think the next phase should dial things back. Go more heartfelt and mostly self-contained.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#94192: Jan 10th 2019 at 4:28:19 PM

Villains like Thanos or Killmonger are the best type of villains, imO.

They are neither Card-Carrying Villain's like Red Skull, nor Well-Intentioned Extremist's like Ra's Al Ghul.

This thin line they are walking between bastard and pityable is just so utterly fascinating.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#94193: Jan 10th 2019 at 4:28:58 PM

Huh...I always thought that Kang's motivation was his dislike for the Avengers not allowing him to be a dictator…..

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#94194: Jan 10th 2019 at 4:29:02 PM

[up][up]Uh, YMMV cause I hate Thanos and find him deserving of absolutely no pity whatsoever.

Edited by wisewillow on Jan 10th 2019 at 7:29:18 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#94195: Jan 10th 2019 at 4:30:06 PM

I have a very specific idea of what I want for the post credits stinger of Endgame.

Thanos, and/or whoever is the secondary villain of Endgame, is defeated. The stones are scattered again, maybe even destroyed. The world is saved.

Then, a piece of wreckage is seen falling to Earth. Something significant, that the heroes overlooked. It sits in a crater for a while, unnoticed for its dangerous nature. Then we zoom in, as the object is finally picked up by a gauntleted hand.

The owner of the hand slowly lifts the wreckage to his face to reveal... the mask of Doctor Doom.

It's not going to happen, but it's definitely the move that would result in the most hype.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 10th 2019 at 4:30:19 AM

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#94196: Jan 10th 2019 at 4:30:52 PM

[up][up]As a general rule, when someone puts "IMO" at the end of a sentence, the YMMV is implied already.

Edited by HailMuffins on Jan 10th 2019 at 9:31:09 AM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#94197: Jan 10th 2019 at 4:30:52 PM

[up][up][up]Well thats your personal opiniion, but I am talking about the concept.

Edited by Forenperser on Jan 10th 2019 at 1:31:04 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#94198: Jan 10th 2019 at 4:30:54 PM

[up][up][up][up] Try to temper yourself because unchecked raging hatred make convos a bit more difficult.

They'll prolly make Kang an observer who appears in multiple movies and slowly builds up importance.

[up][up][up] Man that be totally bitchin if it happened.

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 10th 2019 at 4:32:23 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
J79 Since: Jan, 2015
#94199: Jan 10th 2019 at 5:38:09 PM

I've said it before, but I wouldnt be surprised if the next films are "breather" films featuring threatening, but small-scale villains like Gray Gargoyle or Arcade or the like. They've already announced Mysterio will be the villain for the next Spider-Man film, so it looks like they'll be going in that direction (of course, Spidey has rarely taken on world-threatening villains outside of team-ups and crossovers anyway, but still,,).

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#94200: Jan 10th 2019 at 5:44:06 PM

Personally I feel that saying “but it’ll be rebutted in Endgame” is missing the problem of framing that is my issue.

We know thanks to the rapidly accessible info on the Internet that Thanos’s plan is stupid. Spending 5 hours to get that point of “actually it’s bad”, following all those hours of “but it’s worth a try first” is the problem. By stretching such a foolish gimmick out way too long, it elevates Thanos as worth taking seriously throughout.

It’s the same issue as bowing to demands to debate Flat Earthers publicly. One would expect that putting them onstage would result in quickly making them look foolish. But most of the time the audience actually won’t distinguish between good and bad points, and simply mentally frame the debate as “this guy talks a lot and sounds like he really believes it, so he must be just as smart as the other guy.”

It’s also the same principle behind exploitation films. Audiences tend to care more about the hours in between than they do about the obligatory “actually this is bad” end.


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