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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#94151: Jan 10th 2019 at 2:12:18 PM

The Soul Stone needs a sacrifice because Gamora being inside the Soul Stone is clearly going to be a major part of the next movie, and that was the most dramatic way to put her in there.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#94152: Jan 10th 2019 at 2:14:07 PM

And if that winds up being true in Endgame, great. But right now, we don't have Endgame to judge Infinity War by.

This is what happens when you make half a movie and call it a complete movie.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 10th 2019 at 3:14:49 AM

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#94153: Jan 10th 2019 at 2:17:22 PM

I'm betting that Thanos' defeat in Endgame will come at his own hands. He's still nigh-unstoppable, but Gamora from inside the Soul Stone is able to convince him that his actions in Infinity War were wrong, and when he comes to that shattering revelation, he lets himself lose and be defeated.

This way, the writers can include Thanos knowing he's wrong from the comics and Gamora is technically the one who defeated him, albeit through words, not through knives. Maybe Nebula is the one who actually kills Thanos.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jan 10th 2019 at 3:18:10 AM

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#94154: Jan 10th 2019 at 2:22:16 PM

I'm betting that Thanos' defeat in Endgame will come at his own hands. He's still nigh-unstoppable, but Gamora from inside the Soul Stone is able to convince him that his actions in Infinity War were wrong, and when he comes to that shattering revelation, he lets himself lose and be defeated.

I would absolutely, completely, and totally hate that. On so, so many levels. The villain losing on purpose can be compelling in limited circumstances. This ain’t one of them. He’s basically a vicious evil warlord, the epitome of the genocidal dictator without the racial aspect. I’m not okay with his defeat coming because he feels bad and gives up. I want his ideas refuted and I want him curbstomped.

[down] I can’t even explain how angry I will be if you’re right. That would make for a goddamn awful story.

Edited by wisewillow on Jan 10th 2019 at 5:25:34 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#94155: Jan 10th 2019 at 2:24:40 PM

I'm guessing that was what Dr. Strange meant by "This was the only way". The only way to defeat Thanos for good is to let him win and make him realize he was wrong when he sees the consequences of his actions.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#94156: Jan 10th 2019 at 2:25:05 PM

Depends on whether they keep his subconscious desire to be defeated from the comics.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#94157: Jan 10th 2019 at 2:31:17 PM

They threw out his infatuation with Death in "Infinity War", so the adaptational purity ship has already sailed.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 10th 2019 at 3:31:46 AM

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wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#94158: Jan 10th 2019 at 2:38:43 PM

Honestly I would have liked that better than what we got. Evil toxic dude showing off for a woman who doesn’t like him? Sure. Get into toxic masculinity and misuse of violence as a sign of power/worth.

But I can’t deal with the faux-deep “I’m gonna save the universe by murdering half of it” bullshit. Especially because the framing and script never explicitly shows him to be wrong! Everyone responds that the idea is monstrous, but no one effectively points out that it’s flat out stupid. I like Infinity War less the more I think about it.

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#94159: Jan 10th 2019 at 2:40:29 PM

I agree, the movie acting like we’re supposed to take this crazy variation on Malthusianism seriously is one of its weakest points.

High population growth is tied to poverty; a stable population is tied to wealth. Killing people off creates chaos, dislocation, and poverty, with the result that the population is lower but its rate of increase is much faster. Within a century at most - probably half that - Earth would back to its current population (for reference, the population was 3.5 billion in the 1960s). Or else the dislocation would be so severe that most of humanity would die off.

If you want to reduce population growth, reduce poverty. That’s been the one course of action that’s been consistently successful.

Edited by Galadriel on Jan 10th 2019 at 5:47:27 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#94160: Jan 10th 2019 at 2:46:46 PM

Yeah, since it’s acknowledged by the writers that Thanos’s cause is a stupid grudge, portraying him like he’s still worthy of respect for being “committed to his goal” is like if Lawnchair Larry was portrayed as noble if he killed a ton of people so he could fly a lawnchair.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#94161: Jan 10th 2019 at 2:51:02 PM

Honestly though, do we even know that the population just doubling again is even possible? I Maybe the Gauntlet also made sure that this same level of overpopulation can't be happening again.

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wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#94162: Jan 10th 2019 at 2:51:55 PM

1) How is that relevant?

2) If it’s not onscreen or hinted at, it didn’t happen.

3) Overpopulation is an absolutely crappy, racist field of handwringing based on bad research. The amount and consumption of resources isn’t the problem; the problem is how they are distributed. And I’m mad that Thanos got lots of jerks into seriously mulling the “problem” of overpopulation (by which those jerks mean black and brown people). Good job, Russo brothers!

Edited by wisewillow on Jan 10th 2019 at 5:55:58 AM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#94163: Jan 10th 2019 at 2:54:12 PM

1) It's relevant because that way, Thanos could at least feasibly claim that his solution is not just band-aid.

2) I'm just saying, it wouldn't be far fetched. The Gauntlet can alter reality, after all. Not just mass-kill stuff.

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Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#94164: Jan 10th 2019 at 3:00:08 PM

So would babies just stop being born over a certain population size? That wouldn’t be great for Asgard. They’ve already been halved while at near-extinction.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jan 10th 2019 at 3:00:36 AM

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#94165: Jan 10th 2019 at 3:04:42 PM

He also halved every endangered species. Good luck recovering with that small of a gene pool. Oh, wait, they’ll just go extinct? Almost like this plan is stupid.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#94166: Jan 10th 2019 at 3:06:45 PM

I swear there are certain topics that give me a terrible ringing or rattling in my head.

...... This is one of those topics.

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 10th 2019 at 3:06:59 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#94167: Jan 10th 2019 at 3:07:34 PM

Thanos never said he cares for individual species/races. He cares for the universal population as a whole.

Or why else do you think did he have no problems with killing all the dwarves?

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#94168: Jan 10th 2019 at 3:09:26 PM

Don't worry.

Thanos will get his ass kicked and they'll hopefully make it clear how stupid his plan was in Endgame.

One Strip! One Strip!
Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#94169: Jan 10th 2019 at 3:10:07 PM

The article linked by wisewillow also mentions that population growth declines with income. Wikipedia has a very illustrative chart: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_and_fertility

Short answer: redistribute resources enough to end extreme poverty, and you’ve dealt with population growth (as well as addressing the overconsumption of resources by the super-rich).

Edited by Galadriel on Jan 10th 2019 at 6:11:23 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#94170: Jan 10th 2019 at 3:28:38 PM

Oi. We aren't supposed to think Thanos is right to believe as he does. Well, there's always someone who agrees with the villain out there, but that's not the point.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#94171: Jan 10th 2019 at 3:29:55 PM

Yes, we’re not supposed to agree with him. But the movie completely fails to effectively rebut Thanos. Intent versus actual result.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#94172: Jan 10th 2019 at 3:33:22 PM

Why bother arguing with a crazy man, not like he’s gonna listen.

Gamora certainly tried.

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 10th 2019 at 3:35:49 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#94173: Jan 10th 2019 at 3:37:35 PM

Yeah, what did you expect? For anybody to sit down calmly and discuss economics with him? Like that's gonna stop a fanatic.

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KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#94174: Jan 10th 2019 at 3:41:02 PM

Especially because the framing and script never explicitly shows him to be wrong!

If there was ever a time for him to be outright shown to be wrong, it'd be after the Snap happens. Since the Snap is the end of the film, you can probably expect terrible afteraffects to be evident in the part of the plot that takes place beyond that - IE, Endgame.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 10th 2019 at 3:42:29 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#94175: Jan 10th 2019 at 3:41:43 PM

[up][up]Especially a Fanatic who can beat the shit out of the Hulk.

Everyone is the nail to walking talking hammer that is Thanos.

Edit: [up] I'm assuming that was their plan. Whether it was the best choice or not remains to be seen.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Jan 10th 2019 at 4:42:32 AM

One Strip! One Strip!

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