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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#94076: Jan 10th 2019 at 11:51:59 AM

Drax too. Clearly the three of them need to do a big fancy spiraling team drill attack that pierces through Thanos's chest.

(Realistically speaking, I'm betting on the main Avengers "defeating" him, and Nebula executing him afterward, probably with her own death occuring as well.)

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#94077: Jan 10th 2019 at 11:54:15 AM

What if Nebula seizes the Infinity Gauntlet? Comic book readers would stain their pants.

Edited to add: Also, I'm not so sure that Endgame will feature Thanos' defeat as its climax. A part of me harbors a suspicion that he won't even be the main villain. I could be wrong, of course.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 10th 2019 at 2:59:46 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#94078: Jan 10th 2019 at 11:59:28 AM

Gamora is most definitely not fridged. Fridging is not just killing a woman, it's the case when a woman is killed and put on display specifically to hurt the hero. That was not the case. Disposable Woman is the trope you're looking for here.

Edited by Forenperser on Jan 10th 2019 at 9:01:38 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#94079: Jan 10th 2019 at 12:00:35 PM

Disposable Woman: A female character, typically the wife, sweetheart or occasionally the mother or daughter of the protagonist, who is present in the story just so that she can be either kidnapped by the bad guy...

The bolded part is absolutely not the case here. Gamora is way more significant than that. I really think that there's some projection going on here, like trying to enforce a standard that killing a female character is never acceptable no matter the circumstances.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 10th 2019 at 3:01:42 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#94080: Jan 10th 2019 at 12:02:53 PM

Gamora absolutely is fridged. All "Stuffed in the Fridge" means is that a character (usually female) is killed off (usually gruesomely) in a way that causes the male hero lots of manpain. The point of their deaths is that it's used a plot device — their deaths serve not their own character (they aren't going off in a Heroic Sacrifice), but rather another character.

Edited by alliterator on Jan 10th 2019 at 12:05:26 PM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#94081: Jan 10th 2019 at 12:03:46 PM

No she was not. Again, she is not put on display, and it wasn't done specifically to hurt Peter's feelings.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#94082: Jan 10th 2019 at 12:04:12 PM

In this case it’s to cause the villain man-pain amusingly enough.

Though it’s not like any of us cares for what Quill feels anyway. tongue

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 10th 2019 at 12:04:25 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#94083: Jan 10th 2019 at 12:05:05 PM

No she was not. Again, she is not put on display, and it wasn't done specifically to hurt Peter's feelings.
Neither of those things are requirements for Stuffed in the Fridge. Gamora is absolutely fridged.

Gamora is a plot device in this movie, plain and simple. She doesn't have her own character arc — her purpose is to die and cause angst. That's being Stuffed in the Fridge.

Edited by alliterator on Jan 10th 2019 at 12:06:10 PM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#94084: Jan 10th 2019 at 12:05:55 PM

Dude, the very first sentence on the trope page literally says

A character is killed off in a particularly gruesome manner and left to be found just to offend or insult someone, or to cause someone serious anguish.

Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean that one has to warp the facts.

Edited by Forenperser on Jan 10th 2019 at 9:07:39 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#94085: Jan 10th 2019 at 12:07:47 PM

If you read the entire article, however, you'll note that "leaving them for the hero to find" is not an actual requirement. Many of the examples of the page don't have that.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#94086: Jan 10th 2019 at 12:08:07 PM

At least she was fridged mainly for Thanos.

Because if I was fridged just for Quill, I wouldn’t be able to live with myself.

Keep in mind I’m just gonna be insulting Quill as much as I can here. tongue

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 10th 2019 at 12:08:46 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#94087: Jan 10th 2019 at 12:09:13 PM

I think the issue is the meta-level Chickification of the character. We know that Gamora is a badass, we do get to see it sometimes, but not as often as it seems like we should overall.

The scene taken in isolation is executed well, it makes sense, but it still feels like Gamora didn't really get any big moments that were all her own, despite confronting Thanos being what her whole arc has been leading up to. The moment ends up being about Thanos's sacrifice and Peter's pain. And she doesn't really even get to speak for herself much during that time — it's very much Thanos leading her around and showing her the extent to which he's already won.

Edited by Unsung on Jan 10th 2019 at 1:14:13 PM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#94088: Jan 10th 2019 at 12:10:23 PM

Gamora is, again, a plot device in the film. She has no character arc. Her purpose in the film is to die and cause angst to male characters. That's it.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#94089: Jan 10th 2019 at 12:11:13 PM

Man why couldn’t Quill just be a plot device?

It’s not like he actually does anything important.

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 10th 2019 at 12:11:28 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#94090: Jan 10th 2019 at 12:11:45 PM

I don't see that written anywhere on the page. And examples aren't always an argument, there are plenty of trope misuses around here. The fact is, the main point of fridging is causing the hero anguish. Had Thanos murdered Gamora sadistically just to spite Peter, then yes, that is fridging. Killing her under tears and NOT rubbing it into anybodys face? Is not.

If it is any consolation, I used to think of the trope the same way. I remember 1 year back or so, when Tess from Agents of Shield was killed. And she was even put on display. But it still didn't count as fridging, as it also wasn't done specifically to cause somebody anguish. It was just an execution.

Edited by Forenperser on Jan 10th 2019 at 9:12:10 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#94091: Jan 10th 2019 at 12:12:16 PM

I'm gonna suggest not getting bogged down in what is or isn't fridging. Like Mary Sue, it's a semantic debate that's just going to go round and round forever.

Edited by Unsung on Jan 10th 2019 at 1:13:51 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#94092: Jan 10th 2019 at 12:12:47 PM

Can we all agree to make fun of & have no respect for Quill?

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 10th 2019 at 12:13:04 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#94093: Jan 10th 2019 at 12:14:03 PM

Gamora is, again, a plot device in the film. She has no character arc. Her purpose in the film is to die and cause angst to male characters. That's it.

Very few of the heroic characters have arcs in Infinity War. Gamora has more than most, as she comes to the realization that her father truly loves her, even if it's a warped fashion. No, the primary arc in the film is Thanos', and if you're going to twist Stuffed into the Fridge to include the character killing their own daughter/lover, then the trope no longer has any useful meaning.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#94094: Jan 10th 2019 at 12:14:54 PM

Don't forget cheering for Thanos ;)

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#94095: Jan 10th 2019 at 12:16:59 PM

Eh, Quill is Quill. I love him as a character while still experiencing frustration at his actions. His heroic moment in Infinity War is when Gamora makes him carry through with his promise to shoot her. He also comes up with the plan that nearly defeats Thanos. Sure, he's obnoxious and childish, but that's core to his character. You may not like those attributes, but be careful not to conflate dislike with a judgment as to the quality of his writing.

Part of good writing is establishing character traits and then maintaining their consistency over time, while allowing for them to develop. If there is any legitimate criticism of GotG 2, it is that the characters forget a lot of the lessons they learned about working together as a family so they can undergo more drama.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 10th 2019 at 3:19:49 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#94096: Jan 10th 2019 at 12:18:51 PM

wheeeeeeeeeeee

Edited by Soble on Jan 10th 2019 at 12:44:36 PM

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#94097: Jan 10th 2019 at 12:20:03 PM

Well I’m not particularly hating on him, just find him being a Memetic Loser amusing.

He is the least respectable of the Guardians. His scenes with Thor show he’s rather low on the hierarchy. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#94098: Jan 10th 2019 at 12:23:40 PM

Quill is the Butt-Monkey of the Guardians, The Heart, and also their leader. It's an interesting dynamic. He has no powers and modest skills, but he still manages to be the centerpiece of the story.

Also, while I was never rooting for Thanos, I have respect for his commitment to his cause. He beats the Avengers because he is willing to make sacrifices that they are not. Whether this is a good thing is not the point — obviously he's morally wrong. But he comes to prove a point and he carries through with that promise, something few other characters can say, never mind villains.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#94099: Jan 10th 2019 at 12:24:47 PM

Hey, Aesop Amnesia isn't just a thing that happens in episodic television. People, especially weak-willed and kind of stupid criminals like the Guardians, often take a few tries before the lessons really start to sink in.

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#94100: Jan 10th 2019 at 12:25:13 PM

About the fridging discussion - the original Women in Refrigerators site listed female characters who'd been killed/injured/depowered, in a way that is primarily about serving male character arcs.

Whether what we're talking about conforms to a trope definition or not, the complaint of "I don't the trend of female characters being used primarily to further the character development of male characters" is a valid criticism. You could argue that male characters are used for this purpose to, and that it's a function of who the protagonist is in a story, but when you're in a film industry landscape where the majority of protagonists are male, and the most prominent female characters are often secondary... this is what ends up happening.

What I want to know is why a "singularity from before the beginning of time" would require a love-based human sacrifice?

Edited by Pseudopartition on Jan 10th 2019 at 2:26:19 PM


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