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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#93751: Jan 4th 2019 at 8:30:33 AM

[up] This, so very much. Consider his motivation. Thanos isn't just trying to murder half the universe; he's trying to prove that his ideology is correct. Think about his conversation with Gamora: "I'm the only one who sees that." Thanos is driven by the desire to be right above all other things, and part of that means leaving the people who've opposed him alive to witness his triumph.

This is part of what makes him such a fantastic villain.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 4th 2019 at 11:32:01 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#93752: Jan 4th 2019 at 8:32:02 AM

One also has to wonder if the Snap spared the worlds that Thanos has already "culled" such as Gamora's homeworld. It'd be extra shitty of him to include them in the Snap too.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#93753: Jan 4th 2019 at 8:32:41 AM

I have also wondered about that. I don't know that it's relevant, but it depends on what story they want to tell in Endgame. Will it be strictly about beating Thanos and undoing the Snap, or will there be more world-building elements to set up Phase 4?

A lot of it may depend on what happens in Captain Marvel. I have a feeling that the Kree-Skrull conflict isn't going to be localized to that film, but that it's going to be a setup for what's next in the MCU. After all, something has to explain why Carol is absent for 30 years. We will have to wait for March to find out.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 4th 2019 at 11:43:51 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#93754: Jan 4th 2019 at 8:41:31 AM

According to Wo G: No, it didn't matter if a place was already culled. And yes, that means that the Asgardians got halved AGAIN!

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#93755: Jan 4th 2019 at 8:43:29 AM

Considering what Hela did already and the casualties during the battle with Thanos, could there be more than a handful of Asgardians left? I mean, he blew up their freaking ship. We never saw Valkyrie, so maybe she took a few people and escaped...

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 4th 2019 at 11:45:58 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#93756: Jan 4th 2019 at 8:45:58 AM

He let half of the people inside it escape via Word of God.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#93757: Jan 4th 2019 at 8:47:31 AM

I love the contrast between the fight on Earth and the fight on Titan. He doesn't use the Time Gem on Earth, save for reversing Vision's death. He's not doing anything he couldn't have done on Titan. He's just. Doing it harder. I guess?

It's been my headcanon since the film came out that both Strange and Thanos are sandbagging the fight. Thanos is trying to pressure Strange into revealing the Time Gem so that he can Infinity Gauntlet it away from him. Strange has seen the future and knows that the exact second the Time Gem comes into play, Thanos will portal him into a black hole or rip his soul out of his body or some shit.

Thanos needs to keep the pressure on Strange, but not be so overwhelming that Strange decides that the Time Gem would be safer if he just let himself be killed and never revealed it. He's trying to stay in that delicate middle ground where beating him seems possible, but not without the Gem.

Strange, meanwhile, is trying to find an opportunity to surrender the Gem to Thanos at a time that's suitably desperate enough that it doesn't look like an obvious trap. He needs Thanos to walk away from this fight

  1. With the Time Gem in his possession.
  2. With enough confidence in a hard-won victory that he truly believes he forced Strange to surrender it, and doesn't think twice about what transpired.
  3. Before he actually kills anyone.

Neither Thanos nor Strange is really trying to win. Both are putting on a show of force for the other's benefit. Hence things like the surprisingly survivable moon toss. That moment where they're just casting spells back and forth at each other is basically Murder Ballet.

It's strictly headcanon and there's no real evidence in the film of it. But it holds up pretty well when contrasted with the Earth battle, in which Thanos has nobody to impress so he just wastes the Avengers with minimal effort, and the Knowhere "fight" in which he immediately Reality Gem'd the Guardians.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 4th 2019 at 9:50:08 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#93758: Jan 4th 2019 at 8:49:53 AM

I just figured that by the time of the battle on Earth Thanos was just done fucking around. He's had a very long day and he's so close to getting the last Stone he needs.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#93759: Jan 4th 2019 at 8:51:22 AM

Why can't both of these be the case? I absolutely agree with this analysis [up][up] of the battle on Titan. Both Thanos and Strange are carefully planning their moves in an I Know You Know I Know sense. Thanos can't drive Strange to such desperation that he destroys the Time Gem (or simply dies without surrendering it), and Strange has to surrender the stone believably enough that Thanos doesn't smell a rat.

The fact that Thanos never again deploys the Reality Gem in the way he did on Knowhere is telling.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 4th 2019 at 11:53:08 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#93760: Jan 4th 2019 at 8:56:52 AM

So... Thanos kept softballing on heroes even after they’d gotten within a hairsbreadth of beating him.

But also slaughtered 299 dwarves just because.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#93761: Jan 4th 2019 at 9:05:26 AM

Well, if Strange had a chance to defeat Thanos, he would have seen it, so he isn't really sandbagging, he is stalling a fight he knows he can't win…..

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#93762: Jan 4th 2019 at 9:26:24 AM

[up] Are you sure? Because fans have already proposed a dozen ways that Strange could have beaten Thanos, the Portal Cut trick being the most obvious. Just slice off the hand holding the Infinity Gauntlet and bam, done.

There are others: he could have used the Time Stone to lock Thanos into an infinite loop like he did with Dormammu, and so forth and so on.

The only conclusions we can draw are either that Strange's powers just don't work on Thanos the way we've seen them work on other people, or that he saw that simply beating Thanos here would not have won them a final and conclusive victory.

Consider how Strange took Loki out of the picture in Thor: Ragnarok and ask yourself why he didn't do the same thing to Hela. After all, she's an even bigger "interdimensional threat" than Loki, isn't she? The Doylist answer is, "We needed there to be a movie," but that doesn't get you anywhere.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 4th 2019 at 12:29:13 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#93763: Jan 4th 2019 at 9:28:18 AM

Given that he has the Reality Stone, I think it not working might be a valid interpretation.

The Reality Stone has always been the most powerful of the bunch.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#93764: Jan 4th 2019 at 9:29:10 AM

That is assuming that you can slice off his hand while he wears the gauntlet. If stormbreaker is the only thing which can kill Thanos, I don't think that slicing the arm off would work.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#93765: Jan 4th 2019 at 9:31:10 AM

The way I see it, Thanos is immortal and has waited this long to erase half of all life, he can wait and plan for another hundred years or so for the Avengers to die of old age before he tries again. Beating Thanos is impossible, the only way to stop Thanos for good is to let him win, make him realize he was wrong, and reverse the consequences of the Snap.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#93766: Jan 4th 2019 at 9:31:22 AM

[up][up] The point is that we don't see it attempted. Ergo, either there's a reason why it won't work that we aren't told about, or Strange is deliberately choosing not to try. If the latter, then his plan must include not beating Thanos here and now. The only other explanation is Doylist and I'm not satisfied with that.

[up] Tony manages to draw blood from him with four Infinity Stones on the gauntlet. If a human can do it with human technology, he's not invulnerable. Thor nearly kills him after he has all six stones.

I agree with you that the resolution may come down to convincing Thanos that he was wrong. That would be totally awesome IMO because no MCU villain has ever been beaten that way before.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 4th 2019 at 12:34:56 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#93767: Jan 4th 2019 at 9:33:24 AM

Thanos' plan is logistically idiotic, and halving planets who were already halved, or halving people who don't have a planet (Asgard), is evidence of that.

Is it weird to anyone else that aside from Heimdall, Loki, Gamora, and Vision, Thanos didn't actively kill any heroes, even when it would've made more sense to? Vision and Gamora were to get stones. Loki had just tried to kill him. Heimdall saved someone from the culling, and sent out a warning to others to be prepared. But in the final battle, he could've easily killed almost everyone in that last charge. On Knowhere, he could've killed Mantis and Drax. He could've killed Thor in the opening, especially after Thor stated he'd kill him for killing Heimdall, but instead he just went into full on Bond Villain Stupidity. We know he knows Asgardians (well, Jotuns...) can breathe in space.

[up]Stark didn't even inflict that much damage. Thanos outright stated that Nebula almost killed him on her own (offscreen). Gamora believed it was possible, and also never dissuaded Drax from that possibility.

It is weird to think that Thanos has a stronger will than Ego, though, given the struggle Mantis had putting him down, and not even doing it all the way.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Jan 4th 2019 at 11:36:36 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#93768: Jan 4th 2019 at 9:36:04 AM

Like, if the problem would then be “now some other bloke has the Infinity Gauntlet”, it wouldn’t be that hard for Strange to solve that. He could lie to the others “uh, don’t use the Gauntlet after we pull it off; it’ll explode your brain.”note  Or simply overpower them. Worst case scenario, Quill with the Gauntlet or Tony with it would still be magnitudes easier to stop than Thanos with it.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#93769: Jan 4th 2019 at 9:39:13 AM

Has Strange ever done a portal cut before?

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#93770: Jan 4th 2019 at 9:40:21 AM

[up][up]Not even probably, definitely. Direct contact with most stones has been deadly for almost everyone, thoughout the MCU. Quill, half-Celestial, could barely hold one. The Mind, Space, and Power stones, all needed to be harnessed through a device (Time and Reality as well, if you count the Eye of Agammotto and Reality's liquid form).

[up]Wong did, so I'd be surprised if Either didn't know it was possible.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Jan 4th 2019 at 11:40:55 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#93771: Jan 4th 2019 at 9:41:30 AM

EDIT: [nja]

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jan 4th 2019 at 9:41:53 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#93772: Jan 4th 2019 at 9:42:29 AM

[up][up][up][up][up] It all makes sense if you consider Thanos' psychology.

  • He wants to be right just as much as he wants to win. He's spent his whole life being reviled for his ideology and the only way he can truly feel vindicated is if his enemies witness his ultimate triumph. Killing them deprives him of that satisfaction.
  • He is merciful, in a twisted kind of way. He wants as many people as possible saved for the cullings; killing them ahead of time is a waste and messes with his "half of them die" math.
  • He craves a challenge, and keeps looking for enemies worthy of his time. He tests everyone he meets to see if they can stand up to him physically and/or psychologically. If they can, he tries to recruit them rather than wasting all of that potential. If they are no threat to him, then why should he bother killing them since they'll eventually get culled anyway?

He kills Heimdall to prove a point: "I beat you, so fucking stay down". He kills Loki because Loki has betrayed him multiple times. He kills Gamora as the sacrifice required to acquire the Soul Stone. He is quite willing to kill Tony, but uses the threat of doing so to get Strange to surrender. He kills Vision because he has to in order to get the Mind Stone. Everyone else he leaves alive because of the reasons above.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 4th 2019 at 12:48:04 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#93773: Jan 4th 2019 at 9:47:42 AM

Wong did, so I'd be surprised if Either didn't know it was possible.

Maybe but that doesn't mean that Strange could pull it off.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#93774: Jan 4th 2019 at 9:49:23 AM

Open portal, let character get partway through, close portal. It's as simple as things come. If the sorcerers hadn't been using it as a tactic before Strange came along, he'd certainly have thought of it himself.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#93775: Jan 4th 2019 at 9:55:54 AM

Maybe it doesn't work on Thanos. The guy survived stormbreaker in his chest.


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