TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#93601: Jan 2nd 2019 at 9:48:49 PM

[up] I know and I still think that they should have gone with Mega Ultron. I know it looks silly, but c'mon: it would be awesome. Just pure comic book. For more about Mega Ultron, read this.

Edited by alliterator on Jan 2nd 2019 at 9:49:14 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#93602: Jan 2nd 2019 at 9:50:30 PM

That indeed would have been infinitely better.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#93603: Jan 2nd 2019 at 9:52:15 PM

Age of Ultron needed that big, huge moment that screamed "HOLY CRAP, THIS IS AWESOME" like that swirl around they did in the first Avengers. They tried it in the very beginning battle with Hydra, but there wasn't enough buildup and it wasn't earned yet. If they had included Mega Ultron and had a scene where all the Avengers attack Mega Ultron at once, then I guarantee people would feel better about AOU than they do now.

Also, he's a giant Mega Ultron. Just...who doesn't want to see that?

Edited by alliterator on Jan 2nd 2019 at 9:53:15 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#93604: Jan 2nd 2019 at 10:06:13 PM

[up]I disagree, avenger have plenty of awsome moments, what they need is a threat, have Ultron throw punched at the avengers or actually overwhelm them in a fight.

" Loki and Ultron are nothing alike."

Two petulant,petty, megalomanic who throw tantrums and who first part of is plan consist in dividing the avengers and mind controling one against the other.....sure, nothing at like

And I want to said scepter, Wanda serve the same purpose as the mind stone did in first movie.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#93605: Jan 2nd 2019 at 10:11:29 PM

Loki never throws a tantrum. He's also always in control until the very end, rather than Ultron who is scrambling for control. And Loki is a megalomaniac, but is only petulant towards his brother, because, well, he's his brother. Again: they are nothing alike.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#93606: Jan 2nd 2019 at 10:18:16 PM

You are nitpicking: Loki is petulant and try to prove he is better than other just like Ultron does, both try to monologue with Nat(and end being a bad thing because of it) and try to always mantain control, is just Ultron lose faster that Loki in the movie.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#93607: Jan 2nd 2019 at 10:26:26 PM

By that logic, Killian Aldrich is exactly the same as Loki and Ultron. And so is Hela — she's petulant and petty and monologues, too, so I guess she's the same as Ultron and Loki, too. Wait, Obadiah Stane was also petulant and childish and he monologued, too. Hold up, it turns out that there are a lot of villains that are "petty" and "monologue" but it doesn't make them all the same.

Edited by alliterator on Jan 2nd 2019 at 10:27:40 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#93608: Jan 2nd 2019 at 10:39:15 PM

We are not going into this "look every single detail in and argument" again, is just a waste of timem so let im going to set my entire argument in one post:

Yes, both keep the same structure: both villians who have some personal issue over one chararter(loki and thor and Ultron and tony) both used mind controling power(Loki and the scepter and Ultron using Wanda, hell the latet got the power from the former) to divide the avenger and turing one against the other(Loki with Clint and Ultron with Bruce), and get them out while he carry is big plan.

Both are petulant, like to talk a lot, both get out smart by Nat and got a "funny" moment who take all their threat, is really not hard to see Wheadon repeating himself in AOU, just that Ultron lose control quickly than Loki, which it shoudnt be the cast here.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#93609: Jan 2nd 2019 at 10:45:33 PM

both villians who have some personal issue over one chararter(loki and thor and Ultron and tony)
Lots of villains have personal issues with the one or more protagonists. In fact, I'd say all of the MCU villains aside from Thanos have had personal issues with one or more protagonists.

both used mind controling power(Loki and the scepter and Ultron using Wanda, hell the latet got the power from the former) to divide the avenger and turing one against the other(Loki with Clint and Ultron with Bruce)
Except Loki never really divides the Avengers — his whole point was that he wanted to bring the Avengers together so that they could witness his master plan. His mind-controlling Clint wasn't "turning the Avengers against one another" because Clint wasn't an Avenger then.

Both are petulant, like to talk a lot, both get out smart by Nat
Ultron is never "outsmarted" by Nat. Nat figures out a way to signal the Avengers, but by that point, Ultron doesn't care. As for them both being petulant — again, Loki is only "petulant" when talking to Thor ("I was living under the shadow of your grandeur"), but with everyone else, he is perfectly polite and even nice. Ultron is always childish (since he is literally a child), changes his plans quickly when they don't work out (Loki never changes his plans at all because they do work), and is, in general, more unhinged than Loki ever was. Ultron, in the end, never surrenders and has to be killed; Loki, knowing he was beaten, surrenders to Thor.

Once again, Loki and Ultron are completely different.

Edited by alliterator on Jan 2nd 2019 at 10:46:36 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#93610: Jan 2nd 2019 at 10:49:04 PM
Thumped: This post was thumped by the Stick of Off-Topic Thumping. Stay on topic, please.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#93611: Jan 2nd 2019 at 10:49:36 PM

[up][up]Loki at least is able to muster enough wit and grace to ask for the drink Tony offered earlier when he's defeated.

Edited by M84 on Jan 3rd 2019 at 3:31:07 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#93612: Jan 2nd 2019 at 11:19:17 PM

I, uh, I also figure that, if I can convince her to see the scene from my perspective, it might not hurt her as much, and she might feel better.

This isn’t a topic one can just convince a person to abruptly not feel disgusted by it. Emotional responses to something this close to a person’s life run deep.

The only good response here is “I am sorry that this scene had a bad effect on you, and although it didn’t to me I can understand why you feel that way and agree future scenes should not provoke such indignation from their audience.” Affirm their reaction as valid. It’s what I do when I meet anger that comes from a place of pain.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jan 2nd 2019 at 11:22:34 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#93613: Jan 2nd 2019 at 11:29:44 PM

Reminder that the mods already told us to drop this topic.

I much prefer pointing out all the other ways AOU fails anyway.

Edited by M84 on Jan 3rd 2019 at 3:30:36 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#93614: Jan 2nd 2019 at 11:31:33 PM

[up][up]Like, I totally understand where she's coming from, and I completely sympathize. I would be just as disgusted if I agreed with her interpretation, and I am disgusted whenever I see movies or shows that make horrible statements like that.

I still don't agree. I still think her interpretation is incorrect. I know that fiction is subjective, and most interpretations are valid in some way, but when it comes to arguments like this, where there is a disagreement about what is meant by a certain scene, it's a bit less subjective. Like, either sending that message was the intention behind the scene, or it wasn't, and I really don't think it was.

I feel like I'm getting off-track from the apology this is meant to be.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jan 2nd 2019 at 12:32:05 PM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#93615: Jan 2nd 2019 at 11:37:32 PM

"d say all of the MCU villains aside from Thanos have had personal issues with one or more protagonists"

No ronan, no Cross, no Hela, just saying.

"his whole point was that he wanted to bring the Avengers together so that they could witness his master plan. His mind-controlling Clint wasn't "turning the Avengers against one another" because Clint wasn't an Avenger then."

nipicking again, Loki manage to divide the avengers into themselves and try to used Hulk, and them used Clint who even whent isnt part of the avenger he pretty much count, and even if what yous aid was the case is just more repetition with Wanda and Pietro, they werent avenger then they become one.

" Nat figures out a way to signal the Avengers, but by that point, Ultron doesn't care."

Is still the general point, Ultron start taking with Nat and she create a signal and even Loki didnt care that much what she did considering how he turn things around in the end.

"he is perfectly polite and even nice." he wasnt with Nat, neither with Fury, he is arrogant and condesending the whole time.

[up][up]Hey, im never tired about kicking AOU, it always feels great to me.

Edited by unknowing on Jan 2nd 2019 at 3:38:35 PM

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#93616: Jan 2nd 2019 at 11:41:54 PM

[up]Cross does have personal issues with the main cast. He's got surrogate Daddy Issues with Hank, a weird quasi crush on Hope, and he's got jealousy issues with Scott for Scott "replacing" him as Hank's protege.

Hela's borderline since she's got some personal connection with Thor, being his long lost elder sister, but since he never knew she existed till that point it doesn't really affect things.

Ronan...well, aside from Drax's grudge against him he has little personal connection to the Guardians. And Ronan doesn't even seem to remember Drax at all.

Disgusted, but not surprised
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#93617: Jan 2nd 2019 at 11:44:34 PM

No ronan, no Cross, no Hela, just saying.
Ronan killed Drax's family, Cross was literally Hank's protege, and Hela was Thor and Loki's sister.

nipicking again
Except it's not nitpicking if I'm telling you that Loki did the exact opposite of what you are saying.

Loki manage to divide the avengers into themselves and try to used Hulk, and them used Clint who even whent isnt part of the avenger he pretty much count, and even if what yous aid was the case is just more repetition with Wanda and Pietro, they werent avenger then they become one.
I don't even understand what you are saying, so I'm just going to quote the actual film here:

Loki: The Chitauri are coming. Nothing will change that. What have I to fear?
Tony: The Avengers. [Loki looks confused] It's what we call ourselves, sorta like a team. "Earth's Mightiest Heroes" type thing.
Loki: Yes, I've met them.
Tony: Yeah. Takes us a while to get any traction. But let's do a head count here. Your brother, the demigod; a super soldier, a living legend who kind of lives up to the legend; a man with breathtaking anger management issues and two master assassins. And you, big fella, you've managed to piss off every single one of them.
Loki: That was the plan.
"That was the plan." Loki's plan wasn't to divide the Avengers — hell, there were no Avengers before Loki. Loki's plan was to bring them together and show them that, even together, they couldn't stop him. He wanted a big show, hence why he used Stark Tower, and he wanted an audience, hence why created the Avengers — and yes, that was his plan.

Is still the general point
No, it isn't. In Avengers, Nat turns the tables on Loki quickly after he made a big display of seemingly breaking her emotionally. In Age of Ultron, Ultron legitimately scares Natasha and she doesn't "turn the tables" on him at all — in fact, he's gone when Bruce shows up. Natasha doesn't confront Ultron at all after that.

he wasnt with Nat, neither with Fury, he is arrogant and condesending the whole time.
Arrogant and condescending are not the same thing as petty and petulant.

Hey, im never tired about kicking AOU, it always feels great to me.
It's fine that you hate the film, but randomly trying to shit on it with things that make no sense isn't going to do anything except make you look bad.

Edited by alliterator on Jan 2nd 2019 at 11:46:43 AM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#93618: Jan 3rd 2019 at 3:09:58 AM

Do we really have to engage in this kind of mass quoting game again?

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#93619: Jan 3rd 2019 at 3:55:28 AM

Are we really doing this again?

I think most of us agree that of the three Avengers movies so far, Ultron is the weakest one.

A few of the reasons are just circumstantial...meaning, Ultron can't do the big "team joining" moment again, because that already happened in the MCU hadn't introduced that many new heroes at this point outside of maybe Falcon. And it also can't do Civil War just yet because the team just joined together, nobody wanted them to break apart in their second movie already. Whedon solves those problems by having the Avengers mess up pretty badly and by introducing two new Avengers. That is actually pretty smart, but he stumbles a litte bit in the execution, partly because he also decides to throw this awful romance into the plot, partly because he has no idea how to handle Thor, and partly because one movie is not really enough for all the stories he wants to tell.

But think about it: Take out the romance, take out the search for the vision tube, use the time for Wanda and Quicksilver, especially the two interacting with the Avengers when they switch sides. Add a scene in which Tony convinces Thor that yes, they totally need to create another robot, so that we get interaction between two Avengers which to this day have barely shared any scenes with each other.

Ultron is in my eyes a mixed bag, but I can't completely fault it is also just too ambitious for its own good. There are better movies out there, but there are also a ton worse movies, especially comic book movies.

lrrose Since: Jul, 2009
#93620: Jan 3rd 2019 at 4:05:12 AM

I found Age of Ultron to be forgettable, but less so than the first Avengers. That being said, I know that I am in the minority of MCU fans that finds the first Avengers movie to be boring.

As for Ultron himself, after watching Black Panther, I can't help but think that Klaue would have been the better villain. Sure, he's no match for any of the Avengers in a fight, but he deserved his own movie.

jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#93621: Jan 3rd 2019 at 5:36:45 AM

The worst MCU film is Thor 2 by a mile. It's just SO BORING. At least AOU had a few exciting/interesting bits (Hulk vs Hulkbuster is a fun action scene if nothing else, Viz's final conversation with Ultron, Klaue etc.) But Thor 2? Nothing. Just pure tedium.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#93622: Jan 3rd 2019 at 5:42:33 AM

Thor 2 has its moments. Most of the stuff with Loki works- the sibling stuff especially. It zig zags between goofy fun and boring, and it doesn’t really do anything actively bad, it just fails to be good.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#93623: Jan 3rd 2019 at 5:48:41 AM

Malekith just wasn't a very compelling villain. And once again he pales before the comics incarnation, who is The Fair Folk incarnate.

Heck, Surtur from Thor: Ragnarok was more interesting, and he wasn't even the primary Big Bad of that movie!

Edited by M84 on Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:52:48 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#93624: Jan 3rd 2019 at 5:58:12 AM

Yeah...I mean, I personally like The Incredible Hulk less, because Thor 2 at least has some highs when Loki is on screen instead of being boring throughout, but TIH is more competently made overall, so objectively, Thor 2 is the worst movie. I think it is also the only one which failed in the test screening, which lead to Marvel jumping in and salvaged it into something at least somewhat watchable by adding more Loki.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#93625: Jan 3rd 2019 at 5:59:46 AM

I’ve seen TIH a total of once. It was so boring it didn’t even make me mad. Competent isn’t wrong, exactly, but also nothing works. At least Thor 2 has some fun. TIH was like watching paint dry.


Total posts: 186,763
Top