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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#93501: Jan 2nd 2019 at 6:33:00 PM

Vision came from space

maybe Thanos destroyed his homeworld or something

evil grin

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#93502: Jan 2nd 2019 at 6:34:15 PM

Yep. Absolute every part of the MCU exists! There is no throwing out any of it.

So...what do you think, will they adapt the Royal Inhumans one day tongue

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#93503: Jan 2nd 2019 at 6:44:08 PM

The reason Scarlet Witch was able to destroy the Mind Stone has nothing to do with her (considerable) level of raw power. It's because her powers are directly linked to the Mind Stone itself and thus she can get past whatever defenses it has. Remember that her powers were awakened by experiments using the Mind Stone.

Disgusted, but not surprised
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#93504: Jan 2nd 2019 at 6:53:24 PM

AOU was a lie, Vision come from space, Wanda was in the team the whole time, and Tony and Steve fightring was....ehh......

Fear gas!, yeah that was it, fear gas.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#93505: Jan 2nd 2019 at 6:59:39 PM

[up]That's DC territory. Go with "it was all one of the Reality Stone's illusions!" instead.

Disgusted, but not surprised
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#93506: Jan 2nd 2019 at 7:01:13 PM

I was clearly joking, guys. But also yeah Ao U doesn’t exist; Scarlet Witch and Vision just appeared outta nowhere and Hulk yeeted himself into space for no reason tongue

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#93507: Jan 2nd 2019 at 7:04:31 PM

So...what do you think, will they adapt the Royal Inhumans one day

....damn.

You know what? Yes. Yes they will, hopefully in a way that isn't shit.

I stand by my principles dammit! I'll pay that price!

One Strip! One Strip!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#93508: Jan 2nd 2019 at 7:09:31 PM

Part of the problem of AOU for me was the way MCU Ultron stacked up to comics Ultron.

Comics Ultron was a much more gleefully psychotic and misanthropic monster who was also a basket case of Freudian issues. Even more so after merging with his "father".

MCU Ultron spends most of the movie lashing out and not even really knowing what he actually wants to do — it's not until the end that he decides to wipe out humanity. He just comes across as more pathetic than anything.

Edited by M84 on Jan 2nd 2019 at 11:09:49 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
MrSeyker Since: Apr, 2011
#93509: Jan 2nd 2019 at 7:10:05 PM

I don't mind Nat's monster line, because the context of it is her giving up everything she was in order to become a cold murderer.

She got better, and now has some regrets about what she gave up.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#93510: Jan 2nd 2019 at 7:14:25 PM

[up][up] MCU Ultron just comes across as a loser compared to his comics who was a total monster.

Such a shame too cause of how it wastes such a magnificent performance in Spader.

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 2nd 2019 at 7:14:34 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#93511: Jan 2nd 2019 at 7:15:14 PM

Yeah, no matter what some people might claim, the reality is that Natasha considers herself a monster because she was trained from childhood to be an assassin and murderer, and she has murdered many people. That's a character point that has been around since the first Avengers, and her having regrets about her dark past is literally one of her defining character traits.

I love Age of Ultron, it's a great film with great action, story, characters, and acting.

MCU Ultron is better than "beep boop, generic killer robot" from every Avengers cartoon version of him ever.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jan 2nd 2019 at 8:16:12 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#93512: Jan 2nd 2019 at 7:18:33 PM

[up]The problem with the cartoon versions is that they (understandably) don't bring up his Freudian issues much. That's as big a part of him as the misanthropy he "inherited" from his "dad".

Ultron's a mix of Kill All Humans and Daddy Issues up the wazoo.

One of the most compelling Ultron stories involved an iteration of Ultron who had a quirk in his programming that allowed him to actually get over his issues and make peace with Hank and humanity. They even started to bond like father and son. Sadly, this version was of course destroyed, and a later incarnation of Ultron patched out the bug that led to his predecessor developing a conscience in the first place.

Edited by M84 on Jan 2nd 2019 at 11:21:29 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#93513: Jan 2nd 2019 at 7:19:16 PM

He’s not really a generic killer robot.

He actually has a lot of daddy issues & has a real messed up view about family which included turning into a woman at one point to woo Tony Stark I think.

Or to woo his mother Janet.

Ultron is messed up.

[up] Most likely because it’s too disturbing for a kids cartoon.

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 2nd 2019 at 7:19:59 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#93514: Jan 2nd 2019 at 7:21:29 PM

He had like, zero personality whatsoever in Earth's Mightiest Heroes, and I loved that show (except for how certain characters were drawn, especially Tony).

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#93515: Jan 2nd 2019 at 7:22:36 PM

[up][up]Hence why I said it was understandable that they would leave out the family issues aspect of his character.

But as [up] mentioned, that just leaves a generic killer robot.

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#93516: Jan 2nd 2019 at 7:26:39 PM

Damn shame at that.

Though at the very least he is generally kept as an opponent that requires all the Avengers to barely defeat.

His menace is respectable, even Thor has a thought time with him.

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 2nd 2019 at 7:27:02 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#93517: Jan 2nd 2019 at 7:29:35 PM

One good thing about AOU is that it gave way to the joke in Ragnarok in which Thor tries and fails to use Nat's lullaby on Hulk.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#93518: Jan 2nd 2019 at 7:29:47 PM

@last page: my bad on misremembering the Triskelion lines.

As for the destroying the Time Stone, we know Strange knew that was an option, since Stark raised it earlier in the movie. Strange just knows now that that's a bad option.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#93519: Jan 2nd 2019 at 7:34:37 PM

[up]x8

They sterilize you. It's efficient. One less thing to worry about, the one thing that might matter more than a mission. It makes everything easier — even killing. You still think you’re the only monster on the team?

I will die on this particular hill. That quote was where my general apathy toward the movie took a hard whiplash into outright disgust. I literally turned to my mom in fury and surprise in the theater and whispered “what the hell?!” Being infertile means killing is easier and she’s a monster. Thanks ever so much, that’s definitely not insulting and outright stupid. Cause ladies are soft cause of their uteruses, but no uterus equals killing machine monster. Lovely. Fun fact, about 10% of women are infertile. What a fun surprise kick in the teeth!

Edited by wisewillow on Jan 2nd 2019 at 10:35:01 AM

AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#93520: Jan 2nd 2019 at 7:40:43 PM

Yeah, that's pretty hard to defend. I wouldn't even be totally opposed to some more bonding betwen Nat and Bruce, but surely there could've been other ways to go about it.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#93521: Jan 2nd 2019 at 7:52:44 PM

The Bruce and Natasha romance in general was pretty rubbish. They had like what, two notable scenes in the first Avengers togethers, and one of them involved him basically trying to kill her. That's something that would leave their relationship a bit strained, at the least. But beyond that, the two just have no chemistry in Ultron and the whole thing feels incredibly forced, even before you get into the Unfortunate Implications. It was as if Whedon decided "Well, Nat just likes Banner now", but forgot the part where he needed to create a believable build-up for their relationship/attraction to each other.

That aside, I was actually not finding Ao U that terrible for the first several minutes. It wasn't good necessarily, and there were noticeable issues, but I was expecting it to be even worse based on what I heard.

However, the movie completely falls apart for me around the time Vision gets created because whatever character arc Tony has in the movie is completely shattered by it. It's really, really, really terrible writing and from that point I just didn't care about the movie anymore. And reflecting upon the film more over time, my opinion has continued to sour.

Ultimately both Avengers films have big problems for me. Aside from it feeling like Whedon is pigeonholing the characters into his particular vision in a way that doesn't mesh well with the other movies, Avengers 1 is mostly uninteresting until the final team up and if you aren't already invested in the idea of the team-up, it doesn't really work. Ultron has some effective scenes and seems to be more ambitious thematically but is full of major problems that are impossible to ignore.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Jan 2nd 2019 at 11:57:55 AM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#93522: Jan 2nd 2019 at 7:53:33 PM

[up][up][up] I was of the opinion had those lines been spaced apart by just a couple more sentences, the implications wouldn't be nowhere near as bad. The implications would still be bad, but it wouldn't be as bad.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Jan 2nd 2019 at 10:54:22 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#93523: Jan 2nd 2019 at 8:03:35 PM

Nah, Vision is one of the things which work in the movie. I actually like that Tony's solution to messing up with Ultron is to create a better version of it - one which is infused with Jarvis personality instead of his own.

Plus, I like the symbolism of Vision being a symbolical combination of the four main Avengers.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#93524: Jan 2nd 2019 at 8:07:16 PM

The reason why it's terrible is that Tony tries to do the exact same thing he did in the beginning of the movie (which was a horrible idea borne of his own hubris and thinking that he knows better than everyone else), except this time it works because the plot demands it. Vision himself is really cool, but everything about his creation sucks.

AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#93525: Jan 2nd 2019 at 8:08:19 PM

The only, only reason I'd go back and watch AOU is out of curiosity. At least Guardians 2 was good.

Edited by AyyItsMidnight on Jan 2nd 2019 at 8:09:20 AM

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)

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