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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#93426: Jan 2nd 2019 at 8:27:35 AM

And most Asgardians are normal folk while others are literal gods, but only in a very limited sense of having superpowers and being long-lived. Marvel comics mythology is confusing.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 2nd 2019 at 11:29:31 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#93427: Jan 2nd 2019 at 8:29:29 AM

[up][up][awesome]And Thanos is a mutant from said race, freakishly strong and exceptionally intelligent. But also deformed and, well....mad.

EDIT: Ninja edited

Edited by Forenperser on Jan 2nd 2019 at 5:30:08 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#93428: Jan 2nd 2019 at 8:30:49 AM

[up][up]Even the "ordinary" Asgardians are apparently much stronger than normal humans. Normal Fish in a Tiny Pond.

Edited by M84 on Jan 3rd 2019 at 12:31:05 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#93429: Jan 2nd 2019 at 8:32:16 AM

Yeah, the average Asgardian is around Captain America or maybe even Spider-Man level.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#93430: Jan 2nd 2019 at 8:33:06 AM

Like Kryptonians in the DCU. Yeah, I get it, but it does make one wonder how we Puny Earthlings managed to survive to become a technological, spacefaring (sort of) species in a universe populated with aliens who are so much better than us in every imaginable way. I guess that's what Asgard has been doing for all those eons: protecting minor planets like ours.

I wonder if any of this will come up in Captain Marvel. They've been doing such phenomenal world building that it would be a shame to let this question whiff.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 2nd 2019 at 11:34:37 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#93431: Jan 2nd 2019 at 8:34:01 AM

[up]In Marvel comics at least it's because humans used to be more or less Beneath Notice. The Kree-Skrull War which started because a hyperspace bypass point was discovered near Earth was the first step in that changing.

Of course, Earth's status as a backwater also made it a convenient dumping ground for undesirables or artifacts or weapons that people didn't want anyone to find.

Edited by M84 on Jan 3rd 2019 at 12:36:42 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#93432: Jan 2nd 2019 at 8:36:04 AM

"hyperspace bypass point"

Oh, gods, this makes me want an MCU / Hitchhiker's Guide crossover.

But yeah, like I ninja edited into my previous post, Captain Marvel could slot neatly into this little world-building gap.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 2nd 2019 at 11:37:12 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#93433: Jan 2nd 2019 at 8:38:59 AM

As for the Asgardians and Earth, Earth presumably was just lucky. It's likely that by the time they discovered Earth, Asgard had already gotten over its conquering expansionist ways.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#93434: Jan 2nd 2019 at 8:39:14 AM

Wait, Peter and Shuri getting together is "punching down"? Huh?

It's not about Peter and Shuri getting together. That might actually be cute. I was referring to this specifically:

I know I kind of missed it, but a tiny part of the reason I like the idea of pairing Shuri with Peter is the idea that, by the transitive property, the whitest white boy to ever be white, becomes the Prince of Wakanda.

Wanderlust was outraged by the suggestion, and Sharknado responded with the "Just Joking" defense. The punchline of the joke is having "the whitest white boy" enter into Wakanda's royal line of succession, with a chance to take the throne.

Which isn't a very funny joke for anyone familiar with white people's history of appropriating other people's nations and cultures. It's a history that Wakanda as a fantasy locale provides some much-needed escapism from, in fact. The last thing it needs is people asking, "How can we put white people in charge of Wakanda?"

"The whitest white boy to ever be white becomes Prince of Wakanda" is the racial equivalent of a rape joke. That's how it's punching down.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 2nd 2019 at 9:40:25 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#93435: Jan 2nd 2019 at 8:40:35 AM

Has it been established in the MCU that marrying into the royal family makes one eligible for the throne of Wakanda? If not, Peter would be a prince-consort and not in the line of succession. Easy out to that little problem, and a neat inversion of the old trope of European royalty taking "natives" as consorts.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 2nd 2019 at 11:41:44 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#93436: Jan 2nd 2019 at 8:41:39 AM

Isn't that how it works in the UK?

Disgusted, but not surprised
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#93437: Jan 2nd 2019 at 8:42:15 AM

Quite. There are totally ways to write around it, and [up][up] is a good one. I'm still personally holding out for Peter and Homecoming's Race-Lifted MJ to hook up, but at the very least I'd love for Peter and Shuri to be friends and I wouldn't oppose a romance.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 2nd 2019 at 9:43:04 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#93438: Jan 2nd 2019 at 8:53:05 AM

As soon as we get young new characters in the MCU, people start shipping them. It's both adorable and irritating. I have some Amazon credit thanks to a gift card — I think I'm just going to buy Homecoming, even though it makes me itch to implicitly support that business practice.

Edited to add: Peter and Shuri, as the young geniuses of the MCU, could make some ridiculous and amazing stuff together. I don't see that happening, though, as Spider-Man has all that action hero stuff to do.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 2nd 2019 at 11:58:53 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#93439: Jan 2nd 2019 at 8:59:05 AM

I recommend it. Homecoming's a pretty solid film that makes great use of its characters, features one of the best villains in the MCU, and tells a pretty solid story from beginning to end that feels true to the spirit of what Spider-Man's supposed to be.

For a Spider-Fan, it truly feels like coming home.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 2nd 2019 at 9:59:38 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#93440: Jan 2nd 2019 at 9:00:41 AM

How the hell would a romance between Shuri and Peter even come into fruition? She clearly doesn't need to go to high school, and Wakanda is a bit completely out of Spider-Man's area of purview.

But anyway, someone mentioned Kryptonians up above, and that is actually incorrect: every Kryptonian is über-powerful when under the light of a yellow star, or in other words, a young star still burning up oxygen for fuel. The particular reason Superman is so much more powerful than other Kryptonians (Depending on the Writer) is the simple fact that while the other survivors came into contact with yellow star radiation grew up under the red sun of Krypton, Clark grew up on Earth, being bombarded with Super Empowering Sun Energy TM since he was a baby.

Edit: Also, forgive my ignorance, but what are the technical differences between a price-consort and a regular prince? Wouldn't Peter have just as much political power as Shuri when/if the latter were to take the throne?

[up]I fully agree with you, but I'm still a bit salty over the downplayed role of Uncle Ben.

Edited by HailMuffins on Jan 2nd 2019 at 2:06:50 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#93441: Jan 2nd 2019 at 9:14:56 AM

While the details may be different, Thor is an Asgardian, all of whom are superior to Earthlings inherently, who just happens to also be a god (by the wonky comic book definition anyway) thanks to some sort of weird heritage rules. How did Odin come by his power that he passed on to his kids? Is there a sub-line of Asgardians who are also superbeings?

Anyway, there's no currently established In-Universe reason for Peter and Shuri to link up, so it's all speculation at this point. Historically, prince(ss)-consorts may or may not have political power; it depends mainly on their spouse's role. Shuri certainly isn't interested in being a head of state and I doubt Peter would be, so they'd just ignore any such implications. If she should succeed to the throne by some mischance, then things would get quite interesting.

Edited to add: I wonder if the reason she's shown as "missing" in the Endgame trailer is that she fled as soon as it was known that T'Challa got dusted, so they wouldn't try to make her Queen. There's no super serum left to make another Black Panther, either, so that succession would be weird. She wouldn't exactly stand a chance at the ritual combat part.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 2nd 2019 at 12:34:57 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#93442: Jan 2nd 2019 at 9:21:34 AM

Well, the shenanigans with Asgard's Power Level is the simple fact that Thor is pretty firmly into Science Fantasy, which generally requires twice the suspension of disbelief than either science-fiction or fantasy.

Personally, I never liked that direction: Sci-Fi and Fantasy are siblings, and trying to mix both together is incest.

[up]Nah, Shuri wouldn't do that when her country needed her the most. She's probably just been dusted but no one was there to witness it.

Edited by HailMuffins on Jan 2nd 2019 at 2:23:08 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#93443: Jan 2nd 2019 at 9:23:53 AM

@Shuri being missing.

I’m still convinced that, as part of the general establishment of everything being awful in the post-Snap world, Wakanda is going to be shown as having descended into the civil war and militaristic turmoil that T’Challa was trying to prevent in Black Panther and that her being missing will actually be revealed to be part of that.

I don’t think she’s dead, though.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 2nd 2019 at 9:24:50 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#93444: Jan 2nd 2019 at 9:23:54 AM

[up][up]Don't we have Word of God that she's not dusted, though? Maybe she is killed by Corvus Glaive during his attack on the throne room and we just don't see it in the film, but that would be weird.

I think it's more likely that Wakanda descends into chaos post-Snap, as stated above [up], and she's gone underground.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 2nd 2019 at 12:35:22 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#93445: Jan 2nd 2019 at 9:27:04 AM

NVM, thought you were responding to me.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 2nd 2019 at 9:27:31 AM

ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#93446: Jan 2nd 2019 at 9:30:04 AM

[up]x5: Special bloodline, in the Comics. Thor, Odin, Bor, and Buri are/were all hideously powerful in Marvel 616, and are to most Asgardians as the Asgardians are to a typical human in 616.

Edited by ViperMagnum357 on Jan 2nd 2019 at 12:42:35 PM

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#93447: Jan 2nd 2019 at 11:05:30 AM

@Last page's Stan Lee cameo joking about the word "Marvel" - yes please.

Regarding "punching down", Peter, and Shuri:
What Tobias stated is entirely correct in why that pairing is not funny, and is basically what I meant in every aspect of my initial response, so I don't need to elaborate further on that. It's also a separate (and more important) concern than my not seeing Shuri and Parker as a realistic pairing at all.
There's nothing that would bring them together, or that she would see in him, that she couldn't find elsewhere. Yeah, he's a whiz kid by American standards, but Parker's not that good of a scientist to even be on her radar. He's heroic, but so is everyone else she knows. His best romantic features are that he's a well-meaning, good-hearted dork, and while that's nice for us to self-insert in, it's also "What Does She See in Him?" territory. Even more than the people from his school who actually see more of his features. Plus she also strikes me a bit of a "in love with her job" type. If she were to decide to date, I could imagine her being interested in someone who isn't a lower level hero or worse scientist than herself and people she knows. Given what we've seen of her, I could see her being interested in an actor, musician, or someone else who could expand her worldview. (Ironically, Tom Holland would have a better shot than Peter Parker, to me).

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#93448: Jan 2nd 2019 at 11:17:04 AM

If Peter & Shuri ever got together it’s not like he’d be eligible for the title of Black Panther or anything like that. He’d just be the royal boy-toy.

Now if he had a kid with her then that kid will be eligible.

It’s like what happened with Kevin “Casper” Kole, the second Black Panther who had a black Ugandan father & white Jewish American mother.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#93449: Jan 2nd 2019 at 11:23:18 AM

Prince consort, for a more formal term.

The movie established that it's not that easy, or entirely hereditary, anyway. M'Baku, or one of the other tribes, would absolutely challenge.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#93450: Jan 2nd 2019 at 11:47:13 AM

[up][up][up] I mostly agree, though I have one small caveat- I think the concept of a “worthy” romantic partner for powerful female characters is tricky. Like... I dunno, just something to chew on. The idea that women have to date across/up but men can date down is one I find both positive and negative. On the one hand, I don’t want a badass female character paired up with some useless jerk. On the other hand, saying a female character can only date Extraordinary partners feels really limiting. Like, yeah, Storm and T’challa are awesome, but saying Storm could only be with someone on T'challa’s level bothers me.

But then there’s racial issues too; black heroines often don’t get to be romantically adored and treasured like white heroines; deciding a black female character should only date characters on her level seems like it would be part of that. If someone tried pairing up Shuri and, I dunno, Flash, I’d immediately go nope he’s not worthy.

Maybe I’m just projecting; I’m a woman who’s almost done with law school and man is dating rough.


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