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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#93051: Dec 26th 2018 at 7:20:57 AM

Edit: Wait, Worldbreaker!? Just because the Green Scar is unlikely to ever be introduced doesn't mean you can just give out his nicknames to any bugger who comes asking, Marvel Studios!
Her nickname wasn't really "Worldbreaker," it was actually "Destroyer of Worlds."

Drakon69 The dragon archnerd from greece Since: Oct, 2018 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The dragon archnerd
#93052: Dec 26th 2018 at 7:40:42 AM

Swanpride@ Chill out he just said that he wants to.

but yeah i agree with you.

DRAGON DRAGON
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#93053: Dec 26th 2018 at 7:59:17 AM

???? I wasn't angry. Certainly not about "random actor want's a marvel role" (which usually boils down to "random actor was asked which Marvel role he wants to play so that the interview gets more attention" anyway). I just expressed my preference to put Wolverine aside for now.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#93054: Dec 26th 2018 at 11:11:15 AM

[up][up][up]Oh that is right, sorry sorry, My bad, the two name means the same and english isnt my first language so just a brain fart here.

Sorry.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#93055: Dec 26th 2018 at 12:00:13 PM

[up]Eh, that was more my B. I should've checked, it's not like it takes a lot of time to just visit the wiki tongue.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#93057: Dec 26th 2018 at 4:00:26 PM

Guess we can stop blaming Quill for the Avengers losing against Thanos….

Naturally we also can start to blame Thanos for the snap, but if we need to blame someone else, I am all for THIS character.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#93058: Dec 26th 2018 at 4:43:50 PM

I blame spiderman,it's all his fault

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#93059: Dec 26th 2018 at 4:49:55 PM

Yeah.

I don't expect Zemo to care though. He was willing to kill a lot of innocent people to destroy the Avengers, and then planned to just kill himself afterwards. Now that he's accomplished his goal, he doesn't really care what happens.

...beside, Quill is (if only barely) a hero, and is supposed to be better. Plus, I've been hating on him too long, and right now, not even logic itself will make me stop.

Though I won't go as far as to say Zemo was justified in what he did.

One Strip! One Strip!
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#93060: Dec 26th 2018 at 5:04:05 PM

Shickingly, I think that, and I know this sounds pretty crazy, the guy who willingly comitted genocide of universal proportions despite the enormous personal cost, might be the true guilty party in this whole scenario.

I love Thanos an' all, but the tendency people have of trying to pin the blame of his actions onto other characters is annoying and, in certain cases, a bit concerning.

Edited by HailMuffins on Dec 26th 2018 at 10:04:39 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#93061: Dec 26th 2018 at 5:31:35 PM

A crisis can be the fault of multiple people, including those attempting to oppose it but did so poorly. That's why we remember folks like Neville Chamberlain with infamy even if their intentions were allegedly good.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#93062: Dec 26th 2018 at 6:15:49 PM

Yeah, but the Snappening is not a "crisis", it's a criminal act committed by a single individual.

Let me put it this way: an economic crisis happens because of a multitude of factors, but a house being robbed only depends on one, that is, the robber choosing to rob the damn house. The door being unlocked because the owner was careless presented an opportunity, but ultimately the one who chose to go ahead with the crime was the robber, and he could just as easily choose not to.

The Snappening wasn't a series of circumstances that spiraled into catastrophe because the involved made bad decisions , it was one individual who calmly, decisively and deliberately chose to eradicate half of all life, we he could just as easily turn a desert planet into a tropical paradise and create bunch of good-looking automata to cater to his every need, or clean the atmosphere of every planet suffering with climate change, or eradicate lootboxes from the AAA gaming scene. Y'know, something productive.

Whatever Zemo or Quill or anyone else has done, it merely gave Thanos an opportunity, which he chose to act on in the worst way possible, so therefore it's his fault and his fault alone.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#93063: Dec 26th 2018 at 6:22:19 PM

Thanos didn't simply have the ability to cause the Snap whenever he wanted, though. He had to acquire the Infinity Stones and Gauntlet first, resources the heroes had the responsibility to safeguard, but did so poorly. A poor commissioned guard of a house should be replaced or better trained despite not being the robber.

Bear in mind, it's not only Quill's fault that Thanos succeeded. It's as much the fault of folks like Loki, who did such an abysmal job of ruling Asgard that Thanos got away with slaughtering Nidavellir without any retaliation.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Dec 26th 2018 at 9:24:57 AM

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#93064: Dec 26th 2018 at 6:34:58 PM

Or Thanos could not be such a petty child. Because the only reason he wanted the Infinity Gauntlet was to prove that Titan was wrong and he was right. He wanted to laugh and spit at a graveyard.

My various fanfics.
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#93065: Dec 26th 2018 at 6:37:00 PM

But my point is that, even taking all of that into consideration, Thanos still chose to keep going. He could've stopped at literally any moment, but he kept soldiering on, despite all it took.

See, in Criminal Law, whenever the judge must decide which person is guilty of a certain crime, the process by which that is decided is to look at all of the evidence and pinpoint the acts perpetrated that, if removed from the equation, would result in the consequences being nonexistent.

If Thanos had chosen to simply not go after the Infinity Stones, the Snappening wouldn't have happened, and at worst the Dwarves in Nidavellir would have spent a few weeks more vulnerable before Thor got into contact with them.

That is why, I thinks, Thanos is the only one who should be put to trial, for his actions were what truly caused this whole clusterfuck.

Speaking of which, is it ever specified when Thanos killed the Dwarves? Was it before or after he took the Power Stone from Xandar? Sure, he has superior number and firepower, but from what we see of Eytri, the Dwarves were hardly defenseless, and at least some of them must've knew how to use, to quote Rocket, "The most terrifying, horrific weapons to ever torment the universe" that they manufactured.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#93066: Dec 26th 2018 at 6:49:11 PM

Thanos should be put on trial. Quill should be fired. Culpability does not have to equal guilt.

Thanos not being a Jerkass does not solve the problem. Bear in mind that Thanos was not the only person capable of using, and misusing, the Infinity Stones. They still had a responsibility to be fully protected with all that their protectors could be capable of, even if Thanos sat on his throne forever twiddling his thumbs. A guard who sleeps at their post is still a bad guard even if no robbers come.

And regardless of what the dwarves' defenses were, they were still owed Asgard's protection and received none.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Dec 26th 2018 at 7:20:48 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#93067: Dec 26th 2018 at 7:48:52 PM

I think the point of the video was less "is Zemo responsible for the Snap?" and more "if not for Zemo breaking up the Avengers, could Thanos have still won?"

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#93068: Dec 26th 2018 at 7:50:35 PM

From a Doylist perspective, Thanos was always going to win. Therefore, any question along the lines of, "Would X have made a difference," can be definitively answered "no". Heck, it's been pointed out by many observers that he was pretty merciful to the Avengers — like he wasn't putting forth nearly the effort he could have given the observed and reputed capabilities of the Infinity Stones he possessed.

For example, once he had the Reality Stone, he could have turned all their armor and weapons into bubbles. He could have reversed gravity and flung them all into space. I feel like the battles were more like him testing them: seeing if anyone could pose a threat. He only used the Stones when faced with something he couldn't easily defeat himself. The only reasonable chance was the one Quill messed up: an attack he couldn't have seen coming. But even Strange knew that wasn't going to work.

Actually, I'll take a step back into Strange's foresight. Beating Thanos isn't even the real objective, and Strange knows this. The Stones themselves are too powerful to be allowed to be in anyone's hands. I'm sure there were a million futures in which Thanos was beaten but the Gauntlet and the power it represented fell into someone else's hands and the universe got fucked in a different hole.

Edited by Fighteer on Dec 26th 2018 at 10:56:42 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#93069: Dec 26th 2018 at 7:55:28 PM

Yeah the problem is the idea that united avenger could have change everything which is hard to said the case, after all the atack was so quick tony and the other barely could response.

Also to said is Zemo fault is being stupid, zemo didnt join hydra and get mental power, zemo didnt create a murder robot by using a piece of alien stone and Zemo didnt blow is city and is family to hell.

If we want to asign blame, let put it in the guys with the stones.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#93070: Dec 26th 2018 at 8:00:59 PM

If you're going to assign culpability (aside from the self-evident fact Thanos is chiefly responsible, being the guy who did the goddamn thing) I'd actually put it primarily on Loki's abysmal mismanagement of the Nine Realms, which is what allowed Thanos to stroll up and pick up the Infinity Gauntlet with such ease and, in a domino effect way, was also what allowed Thanos to blindside everyone else (Xandar, The Collector, Thor and Loki themselves) as they only realized Thanos was on the hunt for the Stones far too late to mount a proper united defense.

Edited by Gaon on Dec 26th 2018 at 8:01:27 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#93071: Dec 26th 2018 at 8:03:51 PM

[up]Thanos already manage to jump a invasion of earth, right under Asgard nose, without them doing anything to stop it. so even with Loki doing a good work Asgard would fall anyway thanks to Hella rampage, something neither Loki OR Thor knew about it.

Edited by unknowing on Dec 26th 2018 at 12:32:56 PM

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#93072: Dec 26th 2018 at 8:11:30 PM

I always have a hard time deciphering your posts, so I may be off here but from what I've gathered you're saying because Asgard didn't stop Thanos invading Midgard, they wouldn't be able to do anything else about the other realms. Ignoring the fact Asgard did, in fact, do something about it by sending Thor to help stop Loki mucking about, Midgard is the redheaded stepchild of the Nine Realms where Odin's grasp is fair weaker than in the other 8.

The idea that a properly active Asgard wouldn't have made a difference doesn't really mesh with what the movie tells us. Thor Ragnaork has Thor observe to Loki how the Nine Realms are in disarray and fallen into chaos since he took over because Asgard is doing jack shit to help anybody (and this is clearly a new status quo, by Thor's words and by how we see in The Dark World Thor helping defend another realm), and in Infinity War the very first thing Etri asks Thor is where was Asgard when his people were butchered (directly calling back Thor's "Asgard is absent" comment to Loki in Ragnarok).

A properly active Asgard would have at the very least knowledge that Thanos had taken over the Dwarven Realm and thus had a gauntlet in his posession. This could have been tremendously helpful when it came to Xandar and the Collector. It probably wouldn't have stopped Thanos because he's just that hard to beat, but the armies of the nine realms coming together to fight Thanos could have at least given him a bloody nose.

Hell, even foreknowledge that Thanos is on his way to fuck everything up could have been very helpful to the Avengers. Instead they were essentially ambushed by the crisis with basically minutes to gather their tactical bearings before having to fight off the Mad Titan.

Edited by Gaon on Dec 26th 2018 at 8:14:20 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#93073: Dec 26th 2018 at 8:14:44 PM

Y’know, Ragnarok really complicates the whole peace in the nine realms thing from Dark World. Was Thor really promoting peace/stopping marauders by defending the realms with Asgard as their version of NATO? Or... was he propping up existing Asgard-friendly governments against insurrections???

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#93074: Dec 26th 2018 at 8:19:56 PM

I think in the case of Thor specifically he was just stopping Marauders and some madmen (like Surtur), but Asgard as a broad governing body over its existence did a bit of both.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#93075: Dec 26th 2018 at 8:34:47 PM

[up][up]Yeah Ragnarok muddle things up a little on of what Asgard does, are they offering a projection racket to everyone or being a Empire who subjugates others?, hard to said.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

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