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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#92876: Dec 23rd 2018 at 7:50:39 PM

I don't like the triangular chest piece in Tony's armour.

Go circle or go home Stark.

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#92877: Dec 23rd 2018 at 8:05:39 PM

Here's my thing about the prima nocta joke: it's not, like, a blink-and-you'll-miss it historical footnote in an otherwise unrelated situation. It's literally the joke. If you know what prima nocta is, then the whole joke, from start to finish, is that Tony Stark wants to rape women.

If you don't know what prima nocta is, then there is no joke because the entire joke revolves around prima nocta. So now you have to go look it up or never get the joke. Which means you have to do homework to find out that Tony Stark wants to rape women.

Either way, you're still left with a joke that revolves around the idea that Tony Stark wants to be a rapist. And that is a bad joke.

Writers: as a rule, never suggest that your hero is a rapist. Why do I need to explain this?

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 23rd 2018 at 9:06:51 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Zanthype from The Tardis Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#92878: Dec 23rd 2018 at 8:09:06 PM

[up][awesome] Thank you. Seriously, thank you.

"In 900 years of time and space I've never met anyone who wasn't important."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#92879: Dec 23rd 2018 at 8:10:36 PM

Wasn't the triangle from Iron-man 2 and The Avengers was all about going back to the circle?

[up][up] The line was most likely one of RDJ's add-libs. I doubt that he thought about it.

Edited by Swanpride on Dec 23rd 2018 at 8:11:45 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#92880: Dec 23rd 2018 at 8:12:21 PM

Yup. And the only reason I tolerate Stark as one the greatest super villain of the Marvel Universe (despite the rape joke).

Though he does start using the triangle again in later movies I believe, so I guess he is more evil than I thought.

One Strip! One Strip!
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#92881: Dec 23rd 2018 at 8:17:43 PM

I don't think Downey ad-libbed it, because Whedon's made it his signature multiple times that he likes to sneak in obscure "dirty words" into his dialogue.

Seriously, just yesterday he was trying to show off his mastery of studying English... and instead creeping everyone out.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Dec 23rd 2018 at 8:17:59 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#92882: Dec 23rd 2018 at 8:20:51 PM

What makes it worse is that he was squicked out by the “marriageable age” part.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#92883: Dec 23rd 2018 at 8:54:21 PM

Eurgh. Co-sign Tobias on prima nocta. Ew, ew, ew. And it’s definitely a Whedon joke, not a Downey joke.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#92884: Dec 23rd 2018 at 9:23:40 PM

Seriously, just yesterday he was trying to show off his mastery of studying English... and instead creeping everyone out.
I'm sorry, but...pointing out that an old English word is creepy makes him creepy? I don't understand that. His tweet literally said "This word means something super creepy." And the comments to him were "You're creepy." Why?

I don't think Downey ad-libbed it, because Whedon's made it his signature multiple times that he likes to sneak in obscure "dirty words" into his dialogue.
Just because you don't think it happened doesn't mean he didn't do it — Downey is well known for ad-libbing his dialogue, including the original ending to Iron Man and the "Shwarma" line from Avengers. And the only obscure dirty word that I've seen Whedon put in a movie was "mewling quim."

Edited by alliterator on Dec 23rd 2018 at 9:24:08 AM

Brandon Deadly Vu! from Between Thanksgiving and Christmas (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Deadly Vu!
#92885: Dec 23rd 2018 at 9:24:02 PM

Hasn't Whedon actually gotten in trouble recently for sexual harassment? I haven't been keeping up with his doings lately.

Like creepy stories? Check out my book!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#92886: Dec 23rd 2018 at 9:25:01 PM

Hasn't Whedon actually gotten in trouble recently for sexual harassment? I haven't been keeping up with his doings lately.
And this is how rumors get started. No, he was not in trouble. His ex-wife stated that he cheated on her (and when she found out, he made up excuses), but that was about it.

Edited by alliterator on Dec 23rd 2018 at 9:25:30 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#92887: Dec 23rd 2018 at 9:43:09 PM

Can we not do the whole "sh.. all over Whedon" thing today? At least in my part of the world, it is Christmas. It's not the day to be all negative.

Speaking of which, merry Christmas everyone! Or happy Holiday if you prefer.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#92888: Dec 23rd 2018 at 9:43:36 PM

[up][up]Uh, he issued a mea culpa about mayyyyybe yielding to the temptation of actresses looking up to him, oh woe is me, I definitely didn’t abuse any power or creep on anyone....

“in a letter sent to Cole after his infidelity had finally been exposed, blaming the women he cheated with, calling them ‘beautiful, needy, aggressive young women’ who ‘surrounded’ him.”

And re: the tweet- he said he LOVES nubile because it means sexual and too young. That’s super creepy.

Edited by wisewillow on Dec 23rd 2018 at 12:46:36 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#92889: Dec 23rd 2018 at 9:45:14 PM

I will say I always wondered what nubile means.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#92890: Dec 23rd 2018 at 9:51:57 PM

Uh, he issued a mea culpa about mayyyyybe yielding to the temptation of actresses looking up to him, oh woe is me, I definitely didn’t abuse any power or creep on anyone....
No, he didn't. His ex-wife stated that he told her that, but, again, this was all in an essay his ex-wife wrote.

And re: the tweet- he said he LOVES nubile because it means sexual and too young. That’s super creepy.
Except you are leaving out the entire context:
Emily Nussbaum: I have determined the worst word and it is "nubile."
Joss: I love it because it means young (often too young) and sexual (or sexually attractive), but as a kid I found a definition from 1900 which defined it as "of marriageable age." So it's awful sort of double! English language, keepin' it creepy.

So 1) the "I love it" part is a response to someone calling it the "worst word," i.e. "I love how awful it is" and 2) he literally says it's creepy and awful.

At this point, I think you are just nitpicking to find stuff from him to hate.

Edited by alliterator on Dec 23rd 2018 at 9:55:01 AM

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#92891: Dec 23rd 2018 at 10:00:37 PM

Re: the essay: I have no reason to believe she made it up or any evidence she’s a liar. Whedon didn’t say she fabricated that quote either.

Re: nubile: Tone is obviously going to be read differently by different people, but I got an incredibly creepy vibe from his tweet, as did a lot of other women, and I don’t appreciate the insinuation that I’m being unreasonable or nitpicky.

Edited by wisewillow on Dec 23rd 2018 at 1:01:31 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#92892: Dec 23rd 2018 at 10:06:38 PM

Whedon made no real attempt to deny anything his ex-wife dictated he told her. In a world where women victims are routinely gaslighted and undermined, I stick to believing the victim. From that POV, it's bad optics for him to chime into a conversation about preying on young women when he's implicated of something like that.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#92893: Dec 23rd 2018 at 10:08:37 PM

Re: the essay: I have no reason to believe she made it up or any evidence she’s a liar. Whedon didn’t say she fabricated that quote either.
Except there's a difference between saying "He issued a mea-culpa" and "She stated that he gave her a letter." The first means "Oh, he admitted to it and we can actually read this letter" while the second means "We have to take her word for it."

Also, Joss hasn't talked at all about the divorce, only having a spokeperson giving this response: "While this account includes inaccuracies and misrepresentations which can be harmful to their family, Joss is not commenting, out of concern for his children and out of respect for his ex-wife."

So I'm not sure what you want him to say.

Tone is obviously going to be read differently by different people, but I got an incredibly creepy vibe from his tweet
I got a "This is a neat fact" vibe. In any case, ending the tweet with calling the English language "creepy" should have shown what he thought about the word.

From that POV, it's bad optics for him to chime into a conversation about preying on young women when he's implicated of something like that.
He's not "implicated" in anything — if he was "implicated" someone would have come forward to accuse him, but nobody has.

Edited by alliterator on Dec 23rd 2018 at 10:09:23 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#92894: Dec 23rd 2018 at 10:10:53 PM

Unless she stood beside him with a recorder, her memory is as trustworthy as the memory of everyone else - meaning not trustworthy at all, we tend to misremember things. We have no idea in which context he said it. And him not saying against it, they are in a divorce, he cheated on her, is he really supposed to start a round of mud-slinging to make the whole matter even worse?

And really, can we not do this today? None of us know Whedon personally in the first place, and I think we really cross the line when we stop talking about his work in favour of talking about his private life. When he actually does something questionable on the job, we can talk about it. What people who divorce each other accuse each other of is really too yellow press for my taste.

Also, this is not about "believing the victim". We are talking about a divorce here. It's a private matter.

Edited by Swanpride on Dec 23rd 2018 at 10:15:18 AM

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#92895: Dec 23rd 2018 at 10:18:13 PM

She quoted a letter he wrote her; no idea why you’re talking about a tape recorder.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#92896: Dec 23rd 2018 at 10:27:09 PM

She quoted a letter he wrote her; no idea why you’re talking about a tape recorder
Okay, this is what she wrote:
Joss admitted that for the next decade and a half, he hid multiple affairs and a number of inappropriate emotional ones that he had with his actresses, co-workers, fans and friends, while he stayed married to me. He wrote me a letter when our marriage was falling apart, but I still didn’t know the whole truth, and said, “I’ve never loved anyone or wanted to be with anyone in any real or long-term way except for you ever. And I love our life. I love how you are, how we are, who you are and what we’ve done both separately and together, how much fun we have...” He wanted it all; he didn’t want to choose, so he accepted the duality as a part of his life.

First off: he had affairs, yes, but she states that he had "inappropriate emotional ones" with actresses/fans/so on, which is different from having actual affairs. Second: the letter she quotes is from before she "knew the whole truth" and admitted to the affairs, but nothing else. You can read all of this on the actual essay she wrote.

Again: she never wrote that he had sexual affairs with actresses/fans/co-workers, only that he had "emotional affairs." And the letter she quoted never even admitted to that.

And, let's just be clear about this, her point with the entire essay was, and I quote, "I want the people who worship him to know he is human." Her point wasn't to say that he was a sexual harasser (he isn't) or accuse him of sexual abuse (she didn't). Her point was to show that he isn't a feminist superhero, he's just a flawed human being like the rest of us.

So, now can we move on?

Edited by alliterator on Dec 23rd 2018 at 10:32:05 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#92897: Dec 23rd 2018 at 10:29:15 PM

[up][up] Same difference. That he wrote her a letter doesn't mean she still has the letter, so she was quoting from memory.

[up] Thanks for clearing that up. Since there is nothing criminal about a f... divorce, I avoid paying attention to it, because frankly, this is not for public consumption.

Anyway, yellow press discussion. Private matter. And this is not a nice discussion to have over Christmas anyway.

So...since I already did my favourite moments of Age of Ultron, why not making a round of appreciation?

What I like about Ironman:

The whole first and second act. Everything about it is just perfect. But a special shot-out for the first ten minutes or so. The way they establish Tony as a character is just brilliant. I especially like details, like that Tony is tinkering around with one of his cars when Pepper goes to him. This way it doesn't look odd at all when she starts acting like a blacksmith...oh, and I just love how the score in this scene is used. It is awesome.

Is it weird that I even have a thing for those awkward product placement tie-ins?

Edited by Swanpride on Dec 23rd 2018 at 10:34:49 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#92898: Dec 23rd 2018 at 10:35:00 PM

but she states that he had "inappropriate emotional ones" with actresses/fans/so on, which is different from having actual affairs

No. She said "he hid multiple affairs and a number of inappropriate emotional ones that he had". She drew a distinction between two different types of affairs, making it clear emotional ones weren't the only ones he had. And emotional affairs are indeed very actual, as anyone who's been subjected to one can attest.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#92899: Dec 23rd 2018 at 10:36:16 PM

[up][up].... her not publishing the letter doesn’t mean she didn’t keep it/made it up from memory and I have no idea why you’d assume that.

[up][up][up] Here’s what I’m referring to:

Fifteen years later, when he was done with our marriage and finally ready to tell the truth, he wrote me, “When I was running ‘Buffy,’ I was surrounded by beautiful, needy, aggressive young women. It felt like I had a disease, like something from a Greek myth. Suddenly I am a powerful producer and the world is laid out at my feet and I can’t touch it.” But he did touch it.

I figured that was what the person who asked about sexual harassment was referring to. Everyone from Buffy refused to comment if I remember correctly; no one damned Whedon or defended him.

Edited by wisewillow on Dec 23rd 2018 at 1:36:39 PM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#92900: Dec 23rd 2018 at 10:39:28 PM

[up][up]Per the syntax of her essay, however, it seems as if the "actresses, co-workers, fans and friends" were part of the "emotional affairs" and not the other affairs.

In any case, again, all of this was her way of showing that he was a flawed human being, which we can all agree on. She never accused him of sexual abuse or sexual harassment and nobody else has done so, either, so can we please move on?

Everyone from Buffy refused to comment if I remember correctly; no one damned Whedon or defended him.
Uh, no, everyone from Buffy pretty much said that Joss was great and never took advantage of anyone while they were around.

Edited by alliterator on Dec 23rd 2018 at 10:41:42 AM


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