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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Zanthype from The Tardis Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#92851: Dec 23rd 2018 at 4:41:34 PM

It's just so damn weird to me. What was the point of that? Like, what was supposed to be accomplished by Tony directly referencing the institutional raping of young women by their Lords and other government as a joke?

It's freaking bazaar. I guess I could easily file this under "weird Joss Whedon line that is easily offensive and could've been avoided," but you'd think someone would've put their foot down with this one and went, "nah, rape is too far."

Edited by Zanthype on Dec 23rd 2018 at 4:42:19 AM

"In 900 years of time and space I've never met anyone who wasn't important."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#92852: Dec 23rd 2018 at 4:45:30 PM

The line relies on the audience not knowing what it actually means,joss probably put it in thinking "No one is going to care what Prima whatever actually means and Tony being smart means he'd totally use the line"

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Zanthype from The Tardis Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#92853: Dec 23rd 2018 at 4:49:32 PM

Ehhh, I'd argue it's out of character and Tony wouldn't use that line because it's a gross thing to say. Smart people don't make rape jokes for the sake of rape jokes.

"In 900 years of time and space I've never met anyone who wasn't important."
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#92854: Dec 23rd 2018 at 4:54:04 PM

Eh, being smart doesn't stop you from being an asshole.

Though I agree that it's offensive and should not have been there.

Oh God! Natural light!
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#92855: Dec 23rd 2018 at 4:59:33 PM

He's making a joke about how, if he lifts the hammer and becomes King of Asgard, he'll be a tyrannical Caligula. He could have made a joke about having slaves build statues of him, and it'd be about the same thing.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#92856: Dec 23rd 2018 at 5:01:15 PM

[up][up]And, again, it wasn't in the trailer. If that scene had been skipped in the trailer, people would still have complained, but not as much. But with it? They had a funny, inoffensive joke that fit Tony's personality, and they replaced it with a less funny, offensive joke that was a bit out of character. It's just weird to make the switch.

Edited by Discar on Dec 23rd 2018 at 5:01:28 AM

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Zanthype from The Tardis Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#92857: Dec 23rd 2018 at 5:05:20 PM

You can have a joke about being a bad ruler that doesn't involve raping women or enslaving people...

Agreed, it's even weirder because they had a perfectly funny option that works for the character and isn't extremely uncomfortable.

Edited by Zanthype on Dec 23rd 2018 at 5:08:17 AM

"In 900 years of time and space I've never met anyone who wasn't important."
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#92858: Dec 23rd 2018 at 5:08:30 PM

[up]Again that happen, or I think it did, here in venezuela I remenber the trailer said he would be a fair but cruel leader, which fit him better because he is have a ego and controling issue.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#92859: Dec 23rd 2018 at 5:08:40 PM

A good editor would have spotted that line,circled it,googled the result and made damn sure it didn't make into the final draft,so I suspect whatever looks over their scripts didn't scrutinise the line,protection from the editors,maybe

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#92860: Dec 23rd 2018 at 5:11:57 PM

But they're essentially the same joke, making light of the idea of Tony becoming a tyrant, just one is more specific than the other, naming a particularly tyrannical act, rather than making generic promise to be cruel. I'm not going to say one is better than the other, but in comedy, greater specificity is usually considered a plus.

Zanthype from The Tardis Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#92861: Dec 23rd 2018 at 5:15:49 PM

As a woman that's been assaulted, I have no desire to listen to one of my favorite super heros joke about raping women.

"In 900 years of time and space I've never met anyone who wasn't important."
HallowHawk Since: Feb, 2013
#92862: Dec 23rd 2018 at 5:16:49 PM

With regards to that scene in AOU, weren't they already drinking themselves stupid when they were dared by Thor to lift Mjolnir?

Zanthype from The Tardis Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#92863: Dec 23rd 2018 at 5:21:01 PM

Even drinking I'd say the line is out of character.

It's just bad writing.

"In 900 years of time and space I've never met anyone who wasn't important."
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#92864: Dec 23rd 2018 at 5:23:57 PM

My best guess was that the Primae Noctis line was an attempt to replicate the Mewling Quim line from the first film. Both used archaic phrases to slip in sexual innuendo past the censors and most of the audience.

Of course, there's a difference between a villain using sexist language to intimidate a heroine and a hero casually joking about instituting a policy that allows rape.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#92865: Dec 23rd 2018 at 5:24:00 PM

I can’t see the line as being in anything but bad faith considering just yesterday Joss was bragging about creepy words in English he loves. tongue

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#92866: Dec 23rd 2018 at 5:24:17 PM

Yeah, they were pretty drunk, but it would obviously anger anyone who's been raped before.

Definitely a mistake. I took it as Tony not only being Tony, but drunk Tony (and we've all seen Drunk Tony before. He's not a good guy), but for those who don't find it funny, it was likely a mistake.

One Strip! One Strip!
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#92867: Dec 23rd 2018 at 5:35:29 PM

Suppose the joke had instead been something about putting people's heads on pikes. Would that have been better?

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#92868: Dec 23rd 2018 at 5:38:21 PM

On the other hand, drunken tony didnt build a huge murder bot so it balance it up.

Also looking thor 2....dear god, Jane is reaaaaaally square HARD as thor girlfriend, the more I saw the movie the more it was clear Jane was in a romantic comedy as the "sort of ex girlfriend" while the rest as a superhero movie.

And again Malekith was clearly a star trek reject because is ship looks A LOT like you would expect from a cross between a klingon and and rumolian.

Loki was great but again this is clearly is movie.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#92869: Dec 23rd 2018 at 5:47:20 PM

[up][up] Well violence is considered the lesser evil than sexual assault so yeah.

A violent murderer is better than a rapist.

Edited by slimcoder on Dec 23rd 2018 at 5:48:29 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#92870: Dec 23rd 2018 at 5:57:21 PM

Plus, y’know, murder victims don’t have to sit through murder jokes. Whereas lots of sexual assault survivors have to endure shitty rape jokes.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#92871: Dec 23rd 2018 at 6:03:41 PM

Though there are survivors of attempted murder & friends and family who knew murdered people who prolly wouldn’t be okay with murder jokes.

Though fuck that’s some dark shit to joke about really.

Edited by slimcoder on Dec 23rd 2018 at 6:04:15 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#92872: Dec 23rd 2018 at 6:21:38 PM

If one wants to add some Black Comedy to one's work of fiction, one's safest bet is cannibalism.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#92873: Dec 23rd 2018 at 6:44:05 PM

I've never thought about it, but you might be right. Properly horrific that everyone agrees it's terrible, but rare enough that you're probably not triggering anyone. Brooklyn Nine-Nine did a good one last season.

Peralta: Are you a... cannibal, Caleb?
Caleb: Well, that's not how I would define myself. If we're going by what I'm most passionate about, I would say that I'm a woodworker. Why did you think I was in protective custody?
Peralta: I dunno, I guess I hoped you were another cop wrongly convicted of crimes you didn't commit.
Caleb: Nope! I did all my stuff - and more! There's tons they can't even trace to me. The secret is eating the evidence.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#92874: Dec 23rd 2018 at 7:07:15 PM

[up] I mean, he wasn't just a cannibal. He was a cannibal who ate children. But overall, a pretty nice dude.

Peralta: You're a psychopath, you can protect us in there, right? I mean you killed and ate a bunch of people!
Caleb: They were children, Jake. Weak little children. One 'conk' on their head is all it took!

Edited by alliterator on Dec 23rd 2018 at 7:08:16 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#92875: Dec 23rd 2018 at 7:48:18 PM

Regarding the action scenes in The Avengers:

I enjoyed the attack on the Helicarrier.

Highlights of The Avengers before the finale battle (which is just awesome), include Loki (just Loki), the old man in Germany, Tony's and Bruce's relationship, Steve and Tony's interactions, everything involving Coulson, everything which happens during the attack on the helicarrier...honestly, there is little I don't like.


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