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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#92801: Dec 22nd 2018 at 6:00:04 PM

...So watching Thor: Ragnarok, and an interesting question just came up:

How did Valkyrie capture Hulk?

We have to assume he's been Hulk since he arrived and never changed back since Banner's shock at having been lost for three years mean (and the fact that Valkyrie didn't recognize him) means he never changed back before then, and well...

Can any of you picture those little shock disks stopping the Hulk? Because I sure can't.

One Strip! One Strip!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#92802: Dec 22nd 2018 at 6:05:21 PM

We don’t have any real reason to assume that Kilgrave powers don’t work on Asgardians. If we’re being generous, we could at best say we have at most exactly as much reason to assume it doesn’t as to assume it does.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 22nd 2018 at 6:06:34 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#92803: Dec 22nd 2018 at 6:09:42 PM

[up][up]Probably like in the original Planet Hulk: the portal weakened him at first.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#92804: Dec 22nd 2018 at 6:15:58 PM

[up][up] His powers work via a virus, which in theory you wouldn't expect to have the same effect cross-species.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#92805: Dec 22nd 2018 at 6:43:08 PM

Killgrave was able to mind control Thor (along with all the Avengers) when he appeared in an episode of The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes. But in that case, he was using a machine that he forced Tony to build to supercharge his powers (hence being able to control everyone).

I don't know if normal Killgrave (comics or MCU) could do the same.

As for Hulk being weakened by the portal, seems strange it would happen to him, and not to Thor.

One Strip! One Strip!
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#92806: Dec 22nd 2018 at 6:46:28 PM

Didn't it? I could've sworn it did.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#92807: Dec 22nd 2018 at 6:47:24 PM

BTW, what even is the source of Lorelei's powers? It's been years since I watched Agents.

No explanation is given, it's just Asgardian magic. My guess would be that it's highly illegal and difficult, which is why you don't see every female Asgardian pulling that trick.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#92808: Dec 22nd 2018 at 6:52:12 PM

Good thing she’s dead hopefully.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#92809: Dec 22nd 2018 at 7:08:03 PM

Im watching Ao U again right now and im watching some stuff here:

-I kinda kind of get why Bruce and Natasha are a thing under Wheedon logic: Bruce is a quiet guy and is the only one who dosent really get fighting which can be something new for Nat, it help he is the civilian in general a not a figher like the rest.

-This movie REALLY feel conected to Infinity war, with Stark taking about what is "out there" and when he ask how they are going to face the aliens Cap just said "together" which in a way it examplify both Tony(controling) and Cap(stuborn) flaws.

-Boy the mind vision Wanda give to thor really feels more serious that it is, you can see Thor destroy everything with heimdall saying "this is were conduict your power" which after Raganrok it just.....yeah pointless.

-Is me or this version of Ultron got some things from Doctor doom? the whole "save the world by controling it" and the shout out of him with the cape around.

-Hulk battle with Iron man is still as stupid, pointless and problematic as always, not surprise the russo cut it out.

-Tony trying to convince Banner to create Ultron feel one part evil plan and another a genuide concern, is not hard to see why Stark would be consider evil at times.

-I have to said, Wanda and Pietro backstory is rightly grimdark and in a good way: how Pietro said "we wait two days to Tony stark to kill us".

-I will mantain that Ultron is many ways a unfettered Tony Stark and that is opinion mirrors tony in many ways, which means Tony does really consider Cap a threat.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#92810: Dec 22nd 2018 at 7:09:55 PM

The cape is a reference to his Crimson Cowl disguise, not Doom.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#92811: Dec 22nd 2018 at 7:16:47 PM

-Hulk battle with Iron man is still as stupid, pointless and problematic as always, not surprise the russo cut it out.
I don't understand this — the Russos didn't cut anything out concerning the Hulk's attack on Johannesburg. They weren't even in charge of that. Do you mean that they didn't include anything regarding it? Why would they? By the time Bruce is back on Earth, he has much bigger worries than being mad at Wanda (even though we never see them interact in IW, which I chalk up to him deliberately avoiding her).

-I will mantain that Ultron is many ways a unfettered Tony Stark and that is opinion mirrors tony in many ways, which means Tony does really consider Cap a threat.
Ultron is the unfettered Tony Stark...up until his original plan fails and then he just wants to destroy the world, which I believe is Thanos's backup plan kicking in. "Try to obtain Infinity Stone. If unable, destroy planet."

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#92812: Dec 22nd 2018 at 7:26:32 PM

How did Valkyrie capture Hulk? Can any of you picture those little shock disks stopping the Hulk? Because I sure can't.

In the comic, the obedience discs were capable of subduing Hulk and the Silver Surfer so, yeah, powerful little things.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#92813: Dec 22nd 2018 at 7:27:48 PM

Fair enough. But I also recall that Hulk wasn't exactly at full strength in the comics as well.

Still, this also isn't the comics, so I'm not sure if I buy that.

One Strip! One Strip!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#92814: Dec 22nd 2018 at 7:41:07 PM

The wormhole that pulled the Hulk and others through in Planet Hulk also drained their strength, letting them put the Obedience Disk on Hulk.

In Ragnarok, it could be the same, because we never see the Hulk right after the wormhole. And Thor and Loki don't come through wormhole, they came through from the Bifrost.

Edited by alliterator on Dec 22nd 2018 at 7:41:16 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#92815: Dec 22nd 2018 at 7:48:39 PM

"Do you mean that they didn't include anything regarding it? Why would they?"

Because in the whole civil war thing was maybe important to bring it on?, I mean is the one thing it never got a proper resolution, not with the movie itself, not with CW and is clear no later.

-Fury aparience seen gratious and Im really start to think he should have die in Winter soldier but there is something here: both talk and Fury said how "she manipulate you, play with your fears" so....Stark KNOW wanda manipulate him? because oh boy that just add a new level of "what?" here.

-Again this movie almost seen the true prequel of Infinity war since Stark and Roger pretty much said about the future movie: Tony want to be prepare to fight and Cap just want to be with the team to fight what is to come, and true to art none of the go what then want, Tony have to fight with this weird team made of people he dosent know and Cap fighting amount to nothing in the end.

-The chase scene and fight between Cap and Ultron is....meeeeeh, compare to winter soldier and civil war is a really weak fight and it really downplay Ultron powerwise, which is a fail because Ultron should feel diferent from Loki, who knows maybe is the GCI, we know how Blackpanter-Golden Jaugar fight turn out.

-Wanda dialogue does really add the fact Ultron is Stark unfettered, I still not onboard with Thannos controling Ultron because it feel too far fateched and too "this is nto a plot hole people, REALLY!".

-Ultron scene with Nat is.....yeah more pointless, and for someone as Wheedon who like to subvert expectation it really fall into the "he start monologing" almost stright.

-Tony and Bruce argument again move very firmly between wanting to do good and being out of is damn mind, first Tony make the idea Jarvis already show be better than ultron and tested, Bruce counter by saying is still a lucky show AT best to try integrate human computer with the mind stone to which Tony just said they are both monster and mad scientist and they shoud give another shot....that worry me, REALLY worry me.

-Ok I have forgoten that not only Bruce hold Wanda threating her to read is mind but that Bruce threat to choke her which is.....disturbing for a guy like that, the whole thing between two is a miss oportunity, really.

-I really love Vision "birth" is the only time the movie stop to breath, the pacing is really fast in this movie.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#92816: Dec 22nd 2018 at 8:59:31 PM

Ultron's fight with Cap really isn't that different from Tony's fight with Cap in Civil War. Cap doesn't win his bout with Ultron because he's all alone.

Loki's not that much weaker than Thor, either, I'd put the gap between them about the same as the gap between Iron Man and Thor.

There definitely seem to be tiers to MCU characters, but the gaps between the tiers are fairly narrow. Someone can put up a decent fight against someone in the tier immediately above them, and they can even win with sufficient help.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#92817: Dec 22nd 2018 at 9:03:22 PM

I mean, trying to say who would win in a fight based on what power level they are at is a lesson in futility, because the correct answer to "Who would win in a fight?" is and always will be "Whoever the writer wants to win."

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#92818: Dec 22nd 2018 at 9:04:54 PM

Ultron came off as weak to me in his duel with Cap because, for someone that used to be an Iron Man armor and has access to Strucker's base armory, you think he'd outfit himself with far more firepower. Several times he hits Cap square in the chest with his own hand beams and Cap is barely pushed back. If he installed a gun or missiles in himself, Cap would be dead.

Also it's Hilarious in Hindsight that in Seoul a big deal is made about "we can't destroy the Cradle from our Quinjet, the Infinity Stone in it would explode and destroy the whole city", then in Infinity War Wanda is the only one capable of breaking it and the resulting blast merely rustles the trees.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#92819: Dec 22nd 2018 at 9:21:29 PM

Maybe destroying Infinity Stones with their own energy just creates a more subdued, neutralized fizzle than blowing the shit outta them via conventional means.

Or, more likely, blowing up the Cradle wouldn't destroy the stone, just cause it to violently discharge.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#92820: Dec 22nd 2018 at 9:34:07 PM

Well, the way Vision describes it makes it sound as if Wanda's energy is the only thing capable of destroying the Mind Stone.

Maybe Cap just misunderstood Dr. Cho when she said "you can't just blow up [the Gem]". tongue

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Dec 22nd 2018 at 9:34:37 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#92821: Dec 22nd 2018 at 9:48:38 PM

Ok let me re-phrase better...the fight isnt impresive at all, because Ultron dosent feel like a threat so the fighr kinda feel weightless and pointless.

Is like Winter soldier who feel more like a killing machine than Ultron...you know, THE killing machine, I mean consideing Ultron can fly he could just fly and try to tackle Cap outside and that it.

Anyway the movie is over and so far:

-I thing a problem with the battle of sokovia is that it hold waaaaaaaay to long and the droid are less impresive than the chiaturi, with the chitauri you feel the tema is pulling everything to stop their advance and they are gaing ground with each step, here the droid are just pointless, is like watching the jedi taking droids in the prequels: nobody gives a damn.

-And there those moments were Wheedon REALLY need to put the comedy down: Ultron saying "in retrospective" or Thor moment just kill the moods, it is also bad because Ultron is just....there in the fight, like and afterthough.

-Of course the Helicarrier ex machina......sweet snap how much I hate that moment, is in my top five worst moment of the MCU, it make Cap look stupid, make WS look weak and that fury answer to eerything is a damn helicarrier, I dont like at all.

-In a more positive now I have to admitir I like Haweye in this movie, I like him a a lot, maybe because is snark feel real, as way to deal about being the "Normie" of the group, also being a sort of father for Wanda is a good thing in my mind, really bad he isnt in IF and now Wanda isnt.

-Vision stole the moment with is last moment with Ultron, I like how he seen to agree with him in some point, specially with the idea Humanity being flawed.

-Ok the transition between Sokovia and new avenger are....off, I mean the whole is destroy, Ultron is destroy and is just jump to he avenger, maybe because the movie is too boalted but is...intersting.

-Also a scene I let out but I loved is Stark and Thor kind unsual pissing contest in how their romantic parner is better, how many times do you see that?, it was hilarioustongue

Overall the pacing of the movie is too quick, is second act feel confusing as result and Ultron feel weak as villian, the usual.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Drakon69 The dragon archnerd from greece Since: Oct, 2018 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The dragon archnerd
#92822: Dec 23rd 2018 at 12:18:53 AM

Pushover Media Critic@

the power tiers are more thin than you think. loki in the avengers takes bullets and steve's superpowerd fist to the face and it doesn't do didly dick, and then in dark world a slap fron jane foster aperantly has more power behind it.

DRAGON DRAGON
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#92824: Dec 23rd 2018 at 12:51:16 AM

Jane also had the Reality Stone inside her body, so that might have had an effect.

Oh my god, how much COOLER would The Dark World be if the Aether gave Jane Reality Stone powers?!

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#92825: Dec 23rd 2018 at 12:59:41 AM

Alas, reality is often disappointing.


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