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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#92551: Dec 16th 2018 at 11:15:51 AM

@Tobias Drake: I get what you mean, but I don't know how that applies to the Apocalypse billboard, as Apocalypse is a villain, one that the movie wants the audience to hate so that his demise becomes that more cathartic. Wants but utterly fails because it's impossible to hate a piece of cardboard no matter how many speeches it gives, but the intent is there.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#92552: Dec 16th 2018 at 1:12:34 PM

Somebody mentioned the Abomination's design. I gotta say, I honestly prefer the films design over the fish-lizard....whatever thingy from the comics. That always looked so ridiculous to me.

Edited by Forenperser on Dec 16th 2018 at 10:17:24 AM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#92553: Dec 16th 2018 at 1:27:22 PM

[up][up]It also depend of how it does, Apocalipse can be seen as that but is also to see as your typical "the villian domains the hero" which is mystique by the time of the movie.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#92554: Dec 16th 2018 at 1:48:23 PM

A villain has to do villainous things, obviously, but it is possible to demonstrate their evil without lingering on said taboos. For instance, Mad Max Fury Road is a great example of how to depict a villain as a horrid sexual abuser, without subjecting us to having to witness said abuse exploitatively.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Dec 16th 2018 at 3:15:30 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#92555: Dec 16th 2018 at 1:53:03 PM

[up]It depend of what side you are to represent with said taboos, in Inmortal joe the first bad scene with seen of him is being a dictator who manipulate people with holding a resource, then the rest of the movie focus more in him being a rapist abuser son of bitch with personality cult.

Edited by unknowing on Dec 16th 2018 at 5:53:56 AM

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#92556: Dec 16th 2018 at 2:01:15 PM

[up][up]Yeah, but that's rather relative, isn't it? Obviously a movie like Fury Road doesn't need to show the extent of how whats-his-name-scary-mask is deplorable, because it's a movie with a rather superficial plot, but with, say, Jessica Jones or similar stuff, one could argue that going the whole nine yards is imperative to the point they were trying to make.

Not that I want to argue that the billboard is in any way not tone-deaf, or that the whole that was all-together necessary for the movie, in as much that anything in that cockup cascade is in any way necessary.

Edited by HailMuffins on Dec 16th 2018 at 7:01:38 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#92557: Dec 16th 2018 at 2:07:33 PM

They didn't go the whole nine yards with Jessica Jones. Nor did they have to.

I always felt that rape and abuse the best dealt with by showing the impact on the victim, not by showing the act itself.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#92558: Dec 16th 2018 at 2:09:00 PM

The problem with the Apocalypse choking Mystique billboard isn't that it showed Apocalypse being evil. It's that it showed a female hero in a position of weakness, when most superhero films are shameless power fantasies. Every other poster showed the cast striking badass poses or whatever, but that one was all about one of the primary female characters getting manhandled.

If there were more advertisements showing multiple characters, male and female, in positions of defeat, that would be different. I have a feeling that the Endgame ads might do something like that. But that's not what Apocalypse did.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#92559: Dec 16th 2018 at 2:15:03 PM

Would be much better if instead they showed a advert of Apocalypse standing over a mountain of the defeated bodies of the X-Men.

Not only it would be appropriately comic-esque, but it would show just how much of a threat the man himself is supposed to be, being the most powerful of all the teams' villains.

At least that's what the fans tell me anyway, there's not a more overhyped villain in Marvel than Apocalypse, but hey.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#92560: Dec 16th 2018 at 2:15:15 PM

Also, the poster showed basically how badass the villain is by choking a female character. There was something unsettling about it.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#92561: Dec 16th 2018 at 2:30:37 PM

And it's not even a female character in his league.

I mean, someone like Storm or Rogue would at least be less questionable, as both could feasibly pose a threar, but what could Mystique possibly do to Apocalypse? Play mind games by turning into his pet sphinx?

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#92562: Dec 16th 2018 at 2:38:47 PM

[up]I will get is because Mystique is protagonist and the most expose chararter of new timeline trilogy, so they used her.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#92563: Dec 16th 2018 at 2:40:04 PM

She poses a threat by virtue of being the biggest name actor in the cast. Why do you think Wolverine continues being the mutant every evil organization wants working for them, even though his main power is simply "has claws"?

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#92564: Dec 16th 2018 at 3:11:48 PM

Well he’s also practically immortal.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#92565: Dec 16th 2018 at 6:18:30 PM

Still, his powers are far more limited and less versatile than those of most other mutants we see. He's the story focus because that's what the filmmakers decided, rather than because of his powers being more noteworthy than anyone else's.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#92566: Dec 16th 2018 at 7:23:19 PM

He's the story focus because he's the most popular X-Men character and has been since the '80s.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#92567: Dec 16th 2018 at 8:23:35 PM

Just because we only get small glimpses of that anger doesn't mean it isn't there. Small glimpses are all we need, otherwise Bruce would be completely unlikeable as a character.

If you want me to say that Incredible Hulk was a bad movie, you've got no argument there. I'm not sure why you are arguing about Bruce having deep-seated anger issues though — I'm pretty sure that's not something in question.

Again, Bruce's anger issues are not what I am questioning. It is whether or not he had those anger issues before he became the Hulk.

Becuase we never see him before he became the Hulk. But there are enough hints — including what happens to the Abomination and the Leader when exposed to gamma radiation — that shows the gamma radiation does something similar to the Super Soldier Serum: it shows what's really inside.

We saw what Abomination and the Leader were like before the radiation exposure. We don't see what Banner was like before he became the Hulk. Therefore, there is no conclusive evidence that he had anger issues before he became the Hulk.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#92568: Dec 16th 2018 at 10:04:17 PM

We saw what Abomination and the Leader were like before the radiation exposure. We don't see what Banner was like before he became the Hulk. Therefore, there is no conclusive evidence that he had anger issues before he became the Hulk.
Cause and effect. Think of it like this: "If the gamma radiation turned Blonsky into an abomination because that's he was inside and it turned Sterns into a super genius because that's what he was inside, then [fill in the blanks] in regards to Bruce Banner."

Sure, we never see Bruce before he was the Hulk, but we can infer from how gamma radiation changes people that he had the anger before he became the Hulk, much like how Blonsky was a sociopath before he became the Abomination and Sterns was a genius before he became the Leader.

If you are trying to say that "He only became angry because he was the Hulk," I'm afraid that you are wrong; in every version, it's the other way around.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#92569: Dec 16th 2018 at 11:47:56 PM

In the comics he had these repressed anger issues before becoming Hulk. Heck, he had his first "Hulk" episode way before the gamma bomb, back when he killed his abusive father in a fight (in which Brian Banner was trying to kill him too).

Disgusted, but not surprised
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#92570: Dec 17th 2018 at 11:42:23 AM

@Tobias Drake: I get what you mean, but I don't know how that applies to the Apocalypse billboard, as Apocalypse is a villain, one that the movie wants the audience to hate so that his demise becomes that more cathartic. Wants but utterly fails because it's impossible to hate a piece of cardboard no matter how many speeches it gives, but the intent is there.

The billboard isn't the same situation, so much as it's related. In this case, the problem isn't having a male protagonist you're supposed to root for choking a woman. It's using the choking of a woman as a selling point. "Come see our movie, where bitches get choked!"

Billboards are meant to entice you and make you want to see the movie, and some marketer thought that having a powerful man strangling a woman would be the thing that makes people go, "Yeah, that sounds like an experience that I'm excited to be a part of!"

It's the kind of ad that speaks to the privilege of the people employing it, that a woman being choked by a man is, in their minds, some cool fantasy violence and not a serious threat that they live with day by day.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 17th 2018 at 12:48:54 PM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#92571: Dec 17th 2018 at 12:31:54 PM

Wait we are in serious threat of ancient blue-skinned Egyptians choking out blue-scaled shape-shifting women? tongue

Damn I really need to get outta the house, I so need to get woke for this. [lol]

Edited by slimcoder on Dec 17th 2018 at 12:35:33 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#92572: Dec 17th 2018 at 12:35:04 PM

Way to trivialize violence against women.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#92573: Dec 17th 2018 at 12:35:58 PM

Well it is a very fantastical situation, even then apologies for any offense.

In all seriousness though, if the billboard had an image of Apocalypse choking lets say Cyclops would it also need to come down?

Edited by slimcoder on Dec 17th 2018 at 12:37:17 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#92574: Dec 17th 2018 at 12:46:49 PM

No, it wouldn’t. The image of men choking other men doesn’t carry the same associated sexual violence implications, in society’s eyes. To the wider audience, it gets viewed as “just another fight move”.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#92575: Dec 17th 2018 at 12:48:58 PM

Huh so its a double standard then.

Alright what about a female villain choking a guy or a woman?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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