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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#92351: Dec 12th 2018 at 5:13:27 PM

...do you mean Sentry? That fight where he unleashes "the power of one million exploding suns" in the middle of New York City, to the effect of causing some property damage to the immediate buildings surrounding him? I could give or take that fight.

I could also give or take the part where Amadeus Cho uses super-math to assert that the Hulk instantaneously calculates the precise trajectory of every piece of rubble from everything he smashes in order to ensure that no bystanders are ever harmed by any of his actions.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#92352: Dec 12th 2018 at 5:24:52 PM

Hulk vs. Sentinel wouldn't be much of a fight, Sentinels can't do anything right after all.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#92353: Dec 12th 2018 at 5:35:19 PM

I read the story in Portuguese and Sentinel and Sentry are the same word in that language, alright?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#92354: Dec 12th 2018 at 5:39:23 PM

They really didn't need to get rid of his happy ending, it's not like Hulk being the king of a planet would exclude him from ever getting involved in superhero shit. Doesn't for Thor.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Dec 12th 2018 at 6:39:36 AM

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#92355: Dec 12th 2018 at 6:06:03 PM

[up]Yeah but we needed a reason for Hulk to beat up Iron Man.

This song needs more love.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#92357: Dec 12th 2018 at 6:09:16 PM

[up][up][up][up] Jeez, who programmed those things? The Trade Federation?

[up] To be precise:

Sources tell Variety that the deal for the original four Marvel shows includes a clause that prevents the characters from appearing in any non-Netflix series or film for at least two years after cancellation.

So - at least from the wording - not only can they not appear on a new show on Dsney+, but the MCU can't use them at all.

That said, two years is nothing to a Cinematic Universe, really.

Especially one that might not have plans to use them right away anyway. My theory was that they were being cancelled to make way for a New Avengers adaptation, and even if that turns out to be true we likely won't see another Avengers movie for more than two years down the line anyway.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 12th 2018 at 6:15:35 AM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#92358: Dec 12th 2018 at 6:49:00 PM

The thing is, actors have contracts and they are generally less than two years, so either Marvel has to let the actors out of their contracts and risk not being able to get them back if they want them or they need to start filming a new show(s) and just say that it won't air until 2020.

Actor contracts are pretty much why AOS got a Season 7 — since Season 7 wouldn't air until 2020, they needed to lock down the contracts now and it was cheaper and easier for them to just keep filming back-to-back seasons rather than wait another year.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#92359: Dec 12th 2018 at 6:55:49 PM

Marvel was almost certainly not going to bring back the same actors anyway.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#92360: Dec 12th 2018 at 6:59:17 PM

Why not? The actors for Daredevil got pretty universal acclaim, especially Charlie Cox and Vincent D'Onofrio. Why wouldn't they use the actors who they already know work best in the roles?

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#92361: Dec 12th 2018 at 7:09:59 PM

The same blanket reason Andrew Garfield doesn't play Spider-Man any more, or why we've got Mark Ruffalo as apposed to Edward Norton: it's, for one reason or another, more convenient for the studio.

Though more precisely, there's the issue that these incarnations of the character belong to an extent to Netflix, and so Marvel presenting those same versions again could be a legal problem even after those two years are up.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 12th 2018 at 7:13:22 AM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#92362: Dec 12th 2018 at 7:23:29 PM

The same blanket reason Andrew Garfield doesn't play Spider-Man any more
The Sony Spider-Man movies prior to Homecoming took place in a different universe and weren't made by Marvel. Daredevil and the rest of the Marvel Netflix shows contain many references to the larger MCU (and Agents of SHIELD, in turn, made references to them) and are all made by Marvel.

(And Bruce Banner was recast because Edward Norton was difficult to work with.)

But then again, why wouldn't it be easier to just go with the same actors, since they already know Charlie Cox can play Daredevil? All they have to do is keep him on contract and just not reference any of the Netflix material.

Though more precisely, there's the issue that these incarnations of the character belong to an extent to Netflix
They don't. The contracts are clear that those characters can be used in non-Netflix shows once two years have passed.

Edited by alliterator on Dec 12th 2018 at 7:24:09 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#92363: Dec 12th 2018 at 8:06:30 PM

On the subject of Hulk, while I like Planet Hulk, I don't rate it as highly as many people do because it seems to just take Hulk and make him green Conan in space. Sure, it's awesome, but it gives me the nagging feel the character could be so much more without needing to basically turn him into a wholly different character.

For me, the best approach for a Hulk film would probably be something with Maestro. I think you could get some mileage of Future Me Scares Me Badass Grandpa Hulk and the younger Hulk having to face himself.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#92364: Dec 12th 2018 at 8:11:05 PM

They don't. The contracts are clear that those characters can be used in non-Netflix shows once two years have passed.

Those characters being useable and the Netflix version of those characters being useable are two completely different things. Owning the rights to a character does not give you the rights to everything that character has ever been in.

The basic rundown is this: Disney owns Luke Cage, the character. Netflix, not Disney, owns the Luke Cage series produced/distributed by Netflix. In addition, Netflix has exclusive airing rights for the character of Luke Cage for the next two years such that Marvel cannot create a new series or film starring them in that time, regardless of whether it's a new version of him or not. But either way, that addition doesn't change the fact that Netflix still owns the Luke Cage series produced/distributed by Netflix.

To give another example, this is why Disney had to create a new Spider-Man show after buying Marvel, despite the existing one being produced by Sony at the time being one of the most well-regarded incarnations of the character ever made.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 12th 2018 at 8:15:52 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#92365: Dec 12th 2018 at 8:13:41 PM

Wow. I forgot how incompetent the 90's Series Sentinels were.

Days of Future Past sure made them threatening again didn't it?

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#92366: Dec 12th 2018 at 8:14:20 PM

Well the future versions were.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#92367: Dec 12th 2018 at 8:58:18 PM

Owning the rights to a character does not give you the rights to everything that character has ever been in.
I'm not saying that Disney can suddenly play all the episodes of Daredevil on Disney+, but I am saying that they can have Charlie Cox play Daredevil if they wanted to. They own the character, they can do what they want with him.

Netflix, not Disney, owns the Luke Cage series produced/distributed by Netflix.
Again: they own the series, not the character.

To give another example, this is why Disney had to create a new Spider-Man show after buying Marvel, despite the existing one being produced by Sony at the time being one of the most well-regarded incarnations of the character ever made.
Once again, this is an example of something completely different: I'm not saying that Marvel can suddenly use episodes of Daredevil, I'm saying that they can definitely use the character of Daredevil as played by Charlie Cox.

To give a better example: Law and Order: SVU was able to use Detective John Munch as played by Richard Belzer, despite the fact that he originated in the show Homicide: Life on the Street. They didn't need to reference Homicide, they didn't need to do anything except use the character, which they did. If you're response is "But both shows are owned by NBC," then let me also state that Detective Munch also appeared in The Wire and The X-Files and so many other shows.

Edited by alliterator on Dec 12th 2018 at 9:01:50 AM

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#92368: Dec 12th 2018 at 9:42:22 PM

If you cast Charlie Cox as Daredevil, people are going to expect it to be in continuity with the Netflix Daredevil, which could be awkward if they're not allowed to reference the events of the Netflix Daredevil.

Marvel still owns the character of Daredevil, and in two years they'll be able to make shows or movies with him, but (depending on how their contract with Netflix was worded) anything that was invented for the Netflix Daredevil series, rather than being lifted straight from the source material, is Netflix's property. Like, Bullseye's origin story, and Matt's big defeat of the Kingpin, play out very differently in the Netflix version than they do in the comics, so a Marvel Daredevil production wouldn't be able to reference those characters' history with Daredevil except in the vaguest of ways.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#92369: Dec 12th 2018 at 9:48:35 PM

Marvel still owns the character of Daredevil, and in two years they'll be able to make shows or movies with him, but (depending on how their contract with Netflix was worded) anything that was invented for the Netflix Daredevil series, rather than being lifted straight from the source material, is Netflix's property.
Again: they don't have to reference anything in the Netflix show, all they have to do is use Charlie Cox and then show Vincent D'Onofrio's Kingpin in jail and then throw in some dialogue about how they have a history together.

Like, Bullseye's origin story
You mean that he was an FBI agent or his childhood origin story? Because the latter comes straight from the comics.

But, again, they don't need to reference anything from the show. All they can (and should) do is use the same characters and actors, because otherwise they will be wasting time and talent. (Also, while Netflix owns the show, they are certainly not going to stop Marvel from referencing them, so hell, they can reference the shows if they want. They probably won't want to, since that would advertise for Netflix, but they could.)

Edited by alliterator on Dec 12th 2018 at 9:49:53 AM

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#92370: Dec 12th 2018 at 10:22:44 PM

Sure, you could cast the same actors and just be careful about directly referencing anything from the previous series . . . but why would you want to?

Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#92371: Dec 12th 2018 at 10:30:49 PM

[up][up] Bullseye's story is never 100% true much like Joker. I would not be surprised if Dex lied about a lot of things as well.

Just Makima.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#92372: Dec 12th 2018 at 10:32:29 PM

Sure, you could cast the same actors and just be careful about directly referencing anything from the previous series . . . but why would you want to?
Because searching for a new actor when they already have one that they know will do a great job is silly? Because they don't want to lose the fans of the Netflix Marvel shows? Because if they declare that the Netflix Marvel shows weren't actually part of the MCU, that would be a huge break in their "everything is part of the same universe" ethos and therefore, they should avoid that?

Pick one.

Edited by alliterator on Dec 12th 2018 at 10:32:51 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#92373: Dec 13th 2018 at 12:12:40 AM

The two years are actually good news, because it means that Marvel/Disney DOES have the option to use them down the line.

Anyway, I saw the animated version of Planet Hulk and I liked it well enough but, well, I actually DON'T like full time Hulk because then I always feel bad about Banner.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#92374: Dec 13th 2018 at 12:33:33 AM

[up][up]Problem is, only maybe around 2 % of the casual movie fans watched the Netflix series. Don't think Marvel is gonna be too concerned with 'upsetting' the bunch.

Edited by Forenperser on Dec 13th 2018 at 9:33:47 PM

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alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#92375: Dec 13th 2018 at 1:49:50 AM

[up] And where exactly did you get that number?

By the way, Marvel has made sure that none of their movies contradicted their shows. If they didn't do it in he first ten years, why would they do it in the next?


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