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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#92226: Dec 11th 2018 at 8:39:11 AM

But it is the truth.

More specifically, an ashtray and a zoo cage.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#92229: Dec 11th 2018 at 9:11:34 AM

Sign me up on the list of people who want a Thunderbolts movie.

Although I have to wonder, depending on what version of the team they're going to lift elements on, how would you bring Zemo into it? I'm not sure if he'd even want to be a part of a team and if they go with their run under Osborn's leadership, I really don't see Zemo doing missions for the US government. Maybe it'll be an attempt to redeem himself, but there isn't really anything to fight for now. His family's dead, his country is pretty much in ruins, and most of the Avengers around during the Sokovia Incident are probably going to be gone after the events of Avengers: Endgame. So, he wouldn't even have vengeance to motivate him.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#92230: Dec 11th 2018 at 9:11:44 AM

Hey, if we could Nebula as a Guardian, then she can't fit in a cage.

A cage, an ashtray, and a nicely sized room. One bedroom, one bathroom, a small kitchenette.

Although I have to wonder, depending on what version of the team they're going to lift elements on, how would you bring Zemo into it?
They could do the Osborn Thunderbolts thing and implant nanobots in their brains that will give them seizures if they disobey, but that actually might be too close to Suicide Squad for Marvel to do.

Edited by alliterator on Dec 11th 2018 at 9:12:55 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#92231: Dec 11th 2018 at 9:20:08 AM

Considering that Osborn is a Sony character, it might be better to keep him out of the picture anyway. There is a need to completely rewrite the origins of the Thunderbolts anyway. Since secret identities are the exception in the MCU and not the rule, and you can't really surprise anyone with the revelation that the Thunderbolts are really villains, they need to find a different angle.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#92232: Dec 11th 2018 at 9:23:49 AM

We always know the Thunderbolts' true identities, it's never a surprise out-of-universe. The trick is only on the rest of the world in-universe, and the real trick is that the Thunderbolts eventually decide they like being heroes better, other than Zemo. Which could be good, I wouldn't mind seeing Zemo maximize his potential for Magnificent Bastardry.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#92233: Dec 11th 2018 at 9:26:33 AM

There's a version of the Thunderbolts that was headed by General Ross — it's purpose was, generally, to do the dirty work for Ross and then for a random member (because none of them liked Ross). I think the incentive was money — for each job, Ross would pay them a million dollars.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#92234: Dec 11th 2018 at 9:36:48 AM

Maybe they could turn the Thunderbolts into the MCU version of the Suicide Squad, as an assassination squad.

Of course, for such a story to work, their stories need to be more grounded. Less alien gods, more African dictators.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#92235: Dec 11th 2018 at 9:38:38 AM

A composite would work really well.

In the wake of the Avengers being... well... difficult to control to say the least, and half of them probably being dead after this while debacle, Ross tries to make his own UN sanctioned team of gifted individuals (named after himself) that will do what he commands without question.

But in his arrogance, he is instead fooled into recruiting a group of traitors and criminals in disguise who enact some sort of evil master plan under his nose. Cue Treasure Island reference.

What keeps this from being a repeat of the HYDRA twist is that the focus should be on the villains the whole time. To be precise, the focus character should be Songbird, a crook masquerading as a hero who is initially all for the evil plan, but eventually realizes she prefers to truly be a hero and leads half the team to mutiny against the Big Bad.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#92236: Dec 11th 2018 at 9:41:36 AM

As long as they get in the whole fake heroes, actual redemption part of it in there, preferably with their manufactured identities, then I'll be happy. Get Ross in there, Clint and Natasha too.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#92237: Dec 11th 2018 at 9:46:08 AM

I also think that Ross would be the ideal backer...plus, he might have the power to get Zemo out of prison. And him using Zemo is exactly what he would do.

So in the end, there are two arcs for the Thunderbolts...for one, realizing that they actually like being heroes and therefore they no longer want to follow Zemo's plan, and two, freeing themselves from Ross' influence.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#92238: Dec 11th 2018 at 9:50:20 AM

Please, PLEASE no Red Hulk though. That stupid character assassination by Jeph Loeb should best be forgotten.

Edited by Forenperser on Dec 11th 2018 at 6:50:28 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#92239: Dec 11th 2018 at 9:50:21 AM

Include Ghost in there and I'm totally in.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#92240: Dec 11th 2018 at 10:03:55 AM

Oh come on, Rulk was redeemed later on.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#92241: Dec 11th 2018 at 10:09:49 AM

I’d be down with Ghost too.

I figure that the Thunderbolts should have about six members, half villains who become heroes and half villains who stay villains.

The young, inexperienced focus character who at first is fine with being a crook but then grows to be a true hero (Songbird). A villain we already know who is sympathetic, if not outright trying to be good and not realizing what’s going on, who essentially is the main character’s mentor and who joins the main character when they switch sides (Ghost). And a new minor villain who joins them when they switch or is sympathetic but dies along the way.

Then in the other group, the Big Bad and two other minor villains who don’t switch sides and cement themselves as the Big Bad’s minions. And one of those minions ought to be Abomination.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 11th 2018 at 10:31:07 AM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#92242: Dec 11th 2018 at 10:21:50 AM

[up][up]The concept was still horrible.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#92243: Dec 11th 2018 at 10:31:42 AM

What wrong with Red Hulk?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#92244: Dec 11th 2018 at 10:36:08 AM

General Ross, the guy who hated the Hulk for all of his life becoming a Hulk himself? Yeah, no, not buying that at all.

Off course, Loeb's absolutely horrible writing didn't help. And Parker's attempts might have been laudable, but you can't fix an inherently shitty base.

I'm glad that Ross is back to normal in the comics again by now.

He just works better as a General.

Edited by Forenperser on Dec 11th 2018 at 7:38:48 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#92245: Dec 11th 2018 at 10:37:33 AM

I think a different approach would be interesting. Have Ross make a team of Ghost, Songbird (I like the idea of introducing a new villain as the viewpoint character), Vulture, Abomination, maybe have Justin Hammer come back, maybe Justine Hammer instead, and all led by Zemo. Ross as Red Hulk is the final boss for them to fight.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#92246: Dec 11th 2018 at 10:48:06 AM

My proposal for Thunderbolts was a team backed by Ross, led by Zemo, with Ghost, Abomination, Vulture, and Songbird as constituents.

And while the latter four go on the straight and narrow, Zemo just keeps being an evil asshole and winds up being the film's final antagonist. Ross is just kinda... there. No Red Hulk, but he does maybe become a bit less of a jerk by the end of the film.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Dec 11th 2018 at 1:48:39 PM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#92247: Dec 11th 2018 at 10:48:36 AM

I'm not feeling Red Hulk, either — I'd rather keep William Hurt as William Hurt. Abomination, on the other hand... or the Leader. Samuel Sterns is the real loose thread from Hulk 2008 that I want them to follow up on.

I want the rest of the team to come together and thwart whatever threat their erstwhile leader has unleashed as Zemo gets away scot-free in the ensuing chaos.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#92248: Dec 11th 2018 at 10:49:53 AM

Bringing the Leader back would be the wildest call-back since Peter Paker was revealed to be that kid in the Iron Man mask in Iron Man 2. I now want the Leader to show up.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Dec 11th 2018 at 11:50:13 AM

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#92249: Dec 11th 2018 at 11:01:22 AM

Hard, hard pass on the comment way up the page about the Thunderbolts fighting African dictators. Let’s not have a repeat of Incredible Hulk’s treatment of South America or The Avengers’ gross little scenes in India.

... imagine sending the Thunderbolts out against domestic terrorists/white supremacists. And the others go “wait holy crap WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE” while Zemo secretly helps them because he’s still mad about Sokovia and amoral enough not to be bothered by the white supremacists/innocent casualties.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#92250: Dec 11th 2018 at 11:21:56 AM

I have the feeling that they want Vulture for a Sinister Six movie. And, just like Osborn: Not smart to throw Spider-Man characters into the mix.

Throwing in Hammer is a good idea, he could be the money source. Otherwise..yeah, Ghost, because she is already established, and Songbird would be a good fit. And in a way, this would be already enough, unless they establish another villain which could work later on.

Re: Red Hulk

If they really want another Hulk, they can introduce Hulking whenever they want.


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