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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Age of Ultron wasn't "Save everyone or nobody." Cap was perfectly willing to shoot down Sokovia, but not until he made sure he saved as many as he could. There's even a moment where he believes they need to shoot Sokovia down and is fully prepared to stay and die himself ( a la Winter Soldier)...when SHIELD shows up.
Infinity War is similar: Cap isn't someone who thinks they can save everybody, but he's someone who try his hardest to save as many as he can, no matter what. Hell, did you see him arguing with Wanda when she was finally killing Vision? No, because he knew it was the only thing to do at the time.
Edited by alliterator on Dec 2nd 2018 at 5:08:57 AM
Hang on, its not as though he doesn't have a plan at all. Shuri was reasonably sure she could get the Mind Stone off Vision fine without killing him as long as they gave her time. He tried. They failed. The result would have been the same anyway even if they had killed Vision at the word go ANYWAY as we see in the ending. The game, or trolly in this case, was rigged from the start.
And I fully stand by Captain's question of "Why can't I save everyone?" with the follow up of "Why can't I at least try to save everyone?"
I do think Tobias is being unfair with Steve. He is presented with the idea that killing Vision right now could solve the situation and he decided to at least try to save him before calling it quits and just murdering him (particularly given, as pointed out, Wanda's the only one who can and she's not too on-board with the idea). If we're sticking to the (questionable) trolley problem comparison it's like being presented with it and then instantly deciding to let the one person die than at least vaguely considering there might be another option out. If you're presented with a choice of evils it's human nature to try to find a way out.
When it comes to the central theme of "sacrificing others for the greater good", the film ultimately has a double-edged thematic about it. Thanos's willingness to sacrifice others for his greater good means he wins, but the very last dialogues of the film ("Did you do it?" "Yes." "What did it cost?" "...Everything." and Strange's "We're in the endgame now.") reminds the audience that Thanos's sacrifices may render all his greater good null and void, so it's not as clear-cut as it may seem at first. The film then ends with the question open-ended, because there is no aftermath shown of his deeds, but the last two dialogues and the fact we see all these heroic people who saved the universe single-handedly a few dozen times bring the weight of what Thanos has done to the audience. The sequel will probably respond those thematic questions one way or another.
Ultimately what we're doing here is like judging the thematic weight of the first Lord of the Rings without having read Two Towers and Return of the King. It's a incomplete story, deliberately so, and left open-ended.
Edited by Gaon on Dec 2nd 2018 at 5:25:42 AM
"All you Fascists bound to lose."Thanos's solution to the trolley problem is to have the train run over his own daughter while saying "I'm sorry little one."
"All you Fascists bound to lose."...
Whelp! You heard the man. I'm Galactus now.
Quench my hunger. Steaks and Sugar Cookies!
So says Rob!
One Strip! One Strip!...Does it specifically have to be my current avatar with a Galactus helmet, or can it just be Galactus?
Cause the former is probably gonna be hard to find. Still, I'll give it a shot.
One Strip! One Strip!I just once again want to add that murdering your friend/lover is a fucking hard decision, even when the universe is at stake, and I'd wager that most people in this forum would want to at least try a method that would allow them to live if they thought there was a really good chance it would work. Think some of yall are being pretty hard on Steve and Wanda.
"In 900 years of time and space I've never met anyone who wasn't important."It's a similar reason Gandalf dialogue is so memetic. So much of it is extremely dramatic, poetic or epic. Thanos constantly speaks like he's delivering a speech or quoting ancient philosophers. It borders on comical when several characters quip in his general direction and he responds with a Shakesperean soliloquy.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."I think it looks really good.
Maybe a bit heavy on the effects, but it's definitely better than the Black Panther stand alone poster, where T'challa looked almost cartoonishly fake (except for his head, which made it a little creepy).
Edited by Zanthype on Dec 2nd 2018 at 7:05:04 AM
"In 900 years of time and space I've never met anyone who wasn't important."

It's also not Steve's final decision if Wanda kills Vision, that's Wanda's decision. She was the one telling him no, to hold on a bit longer and find another way. Cap just agreed with her. If she made the decision to kill Vision, Steve wouldn't have stood in her way, since y'know, he didn't when it actually happened in the movie.
By the end, Steve was the one fighting the hardest to keep Thanos away from Vision and let Wanda kill him to destroy the Mind Stone. It's not that Steve made an executive decision that he stuck to until it failed. It's that Steve agreed with the decision someone else made and then they both changed their minds once things went pear-shaped.