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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#91551: Dec 2nd 2018 at 1:41:37 PM

I admit...I actually don't know. I mean, yes they are there to get to Claw, but I actually don't remember what he was actually doing there.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#91552: Dec 2nd 2018 at 1:49:06 PM

Trading his vibranium museum piece for a briefcase fulla diamonds with the CIA, who were possibly there as part of a sting operation. Or were they just trying to get their hands on vibranium regardless of origin?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Zanthype from The Tardis Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#91553: Dec 2nd 2018 at 1:58:47 PM

So, I'm lying in bed, sick, listening to IW commentary and this actually just happened during the scene where Nebula is being tortured:

Writers:

"It's easy to jump on the grenad, but would you throw someone else on the grenade?"

"Anthony, if Joe was hung up on a rack and being tortured, what would you do?"

Anthony:

"I would give up Vorimir."

"In 900 years of time and space I've never met anyone who wasn't important."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#91554: Dec 2nd 2018 at 2:01:59 PM

The recurring theme of "are you willing to let others sacrifice themselves for your sake" truly reaches its zenith with Drax declaring he can handle whatever Iron Man is about to shoot him with, if you ask me.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#91555: Dec 2nd 2018 at 2:02:24 PM

[up][up][up] And what again wanted they do with the diamonds?

[up][up] The scene runs deeper, though. Her whole life Gamora was forced to indirectly cause Nebula pain by winning against her again and again and again. That was the first time she had the opportunity to protect her. And she took it.

Edited by Swanpride on Dec 2nd 2018 at 2:03:54 AM

ComicFan Since: Sep, 2016
#91556: Dec 2nd 2018 at 2:35:26 PM

New Captain Marvel trailer tomorrow according to John Campea and possibly the Avengers 4 trailer Wednesday[1]

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#91557: Dec 2nd 2018 at 2:44:10 PM

For what its worth, the "We don't trade lives" thing is an actual philosophical thought experiment. It's called the Trolley Problem and it goes thusly:

There is a runaway trolley barreling down the tracks with no brakes or way to stop it. Ahead of the trolley, there are five people tied up, incapacitated, too busy to hear you, etc. etc. There is no way to reach them and get them to move out of the trolley's way; if nothing is done, the trolley will collide with and kill them all.

In front of you is a switch to a junction. If you throw the switch, it will force the trolley to change to a separate track on which there is a single person. You will save the lives of five people, but be directly responsible for the death of the sixth.

So what do you do? Is it better to kill one person to save five? Or is it more important to keep your hands clean of blood at the cost of other people's lives?

Some variants of the trolley problem make the question harder by indicating that the sixth person is a friend, a family member, a famous person, maybe even your child. But the core of the question remains the same: do you kill one to save five?

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#91558: Dec 2nd 2018 at 2:46:07 PM

To which superheroes say "save six."

My various fanfics.
InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#91559: Dec 2nd 2018 at 2:51:33 PM

Or sacrifice yourself to save the one.

Though I would argue a problem with the thought experiment is that 'Pull Lever' or 'Do Nothing' are the only options. I realize scrutiny destroies these things, but just because I'm not going to pull the lever doesn't mean I won't try to do anything at all. I think it sets a bit of an asshole tone to a thought that's otherwise meant to be more open ended.

I remember it being discussed in High School with someone (don't remember if it were a teacher or student) criticized "So, you just sit there and watch people die? That's terrible!", putting pressure on that people pulling the lever is better than doing nothing at all and being a bystander, regardless of the context.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#91560: Dec 2nd 2018 at 2:52:22 PM

That's what makes them superheroes, they can save more people than regular heroes. Ideally, the superheroes would be powerful enough to save everyone.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#91561: Dec 2nd 2018 at 2:53:22 PM

[up][up][up]

That is true. However, in most cases you don't get that option.

The Trolley problem does seem to be set up with no way to save that single person either. So you have no choice but to choose the many or the one, and it's especially horrific if that one is someone you know.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Dec 2nd 2018 at 3:53:37 AM

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#91562: Dec 2nd 2018 at 2:55:03 PM

To which superheroes say "save six."

Which is choosing to let the five die, but with some machismo added in. It's expressing a desire to try anything except the only option that the scenario actually allows to work.

It's the "I refuse to be personally responsible for someone's death," answer rephrased to sound more pleasant. Instead of doing nothing and letting them die, the choice is to flail in vain before letting them die, then walk away going, "At least I tried. That means I don't have to feel bad!"

Mind you, it's still a valid answer because the point of the experiment is to understand a person's mindset. That answer tells you that the person in question is more concerned with feeling like they made an effort to help than with actually helping people.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 2nd 2018 at 4:00:50 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#91563: Dec 2nd 2018 at 2:56:23 PM

"The hardest choices require the strongest wills."

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#91564: Dec 2nd 2018 at 2:58:15 PM

god damn it Nickolas those people DIED

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#91565: Dec 2nd 2018 at 3:00:03 PM

Nicholas thinks a lot about meteors. The purity of them...

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#91566: Dec 2nd 2018 at 3:01:27 PM

The difference in Infinity War is that the one person standing on the alternate trolley tracks? They're jumping up and down, waving their arms, and shouting, "Change the tracks! Don't let them die! I'm okay with getting run over!"

If that one person is willing to die to save the other five, and the other five (without any further information) can be assumed to not want to die, then the only person who would object to changing the trolley's track is you. If you let the trolley run over those five people, you're doing it for your own sake, not anyone else's.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#91567: Dec 2nd 2018 at 3:05:29 PM

That 2 year old is a genius. That's the only response you should give to the Trolley Problem.

Edited by VeryMelon on Dec 2nd 2018 at 6:05:39 AM

InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#91568: Dec 2nd 2018 at 3:07:42 PM

[up]x6

I disagree that it is an inherently selfish and feeling based desire. I will certainly feel less guilty if I tried to help and failed than if I stood and watched. A life full of regret and what ifs is not worth living. But my feelings on the matter are not my priority and this is more based on a person's personal moral code of ethics than one of selfish feelings.

Humans combat systems and look outside the box all the time. We see the golden solutions and try to build towards them, regardless of how fruitless it might be with the tools we're given. I also don't think many superhero stories would pass up the angst with "Well, I tried something so no guilt on me!". Peter Parker, Bruce Wayne, and many others would like a word. The thought of "Oh my god, why should I possibly have to choose between two options?" isn't an uncommon thought even in real life every day thinking.

This is also a thought experiment to which there isn't an actual answer to it and anything we apply to it probably says more about the analyist than the actual subject. "Is a person who doesn't pull the switch cold and heartless against society, or a bystander incapable of intervening, or are they too stuborn to accept a binary choice to the detriment of more people?" compared to "Is someone who pulls the switch a murderer, un-empathetic, too stupid to try and think outside the box/situation they've been handed, or possibly someone who will take the easiest route possible and favor the community over the individual?"

I've seen ALL of these interpretations to the same thought experiment. I question who is actually supposed to be analysed here.

Edited by InkDagger on Dec 2nd 2018 at 3:09:44 AM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#91569: Dec 2nd 2018 at 3:10:20 PM

The Good Place has an entire episode dedicated to the Trolley Problem, which is really good and hilarious:

And then the shows brings up again at the end of the season to great heartbreak:

Edited by alliterator on Dec 2nd 2018 at 3:10:42 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#91570: Dec 2nd 2018 at 3:21:02 PM

I don't think that the tracks are a good allegory here. Because Infinity war is more "so we start on the journey now and we might get to the point at which we will have to make the decision, but we will try to built an additional track first". At least when it comes to Vision. Once Wanda actually reaches the point of decision, she does kill Vision after all. But doing so before that point of no other option was reached would have just been wrong.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#91571: Dec 2nd 2018 at 3:25:31 PM

The Infinity War trolley problem is more like this:

There is a trolley headed towards half of all life in the universe. You can divert the trolley onto a different track to kill just one person, but there's a possibility that track will just lead back onto the main track eventually, accomplishing nothing. The solution the Avengers took was "stop the trolley before it can hit anyone".

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#91572: Dec 2nd 2018 at 3:26:26 PM

[up][up]I do agree. There was still time to save the guy on the one track, and it makes more sense to do that then just decide to kill that dude or let the other five die.

Hell, it's not that they wouldn't make that choice, but that they felt they could save him first.

Also consider that if their plan had worked, they'd have had another powerful warrior to send against Thanos.

Edit: [up]This as well.

Killing Vision wouldn't have actually saved the other people, because Thanos' plan specifically required their deaths. As I said, getting the stone out means now Vision can focus on fighting as well.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Dec 2nd 2018 at 4:28:26 AM

One Strip! One Strip!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#91573: Dec 2nd 2018 at 3:29:08 PM

Plus, we shouldn't forget that Infinity makes the point that the sacrifice play doesn't really work for anyone but the villain.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#91574: Dec 2nd 2018 at 3:31:12 PM

Yeah He won't any else sacrifice themselves if it gets in the way of his plans.

He blocks them at every turn.

One Strip! One Strip!
ComicFan Since: Sep, 2016
#91575: Dec 2nd 2018 at 3:35:05 PM

Promo for the new Captain Marvel trailer[1]


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