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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#91426: Nov 30th 2018 at 1:23:22 AM

Got a lot of that in the '90s cartoon and video games, along with fighting a lot of robots.

Edited by Unsung on Nov 30th 2018 at 2:29:26 AM

Drakon69 The dragon archnerd from greece Since: Oct, 2018 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The dragon archnerd
#91427: Nov 30th 2018 at 1:26:15 AM

You Gotta love cartoon robot violence

DRAGON DRAGON
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#91428: Nov 30th 2018 at 1:26:46 AM

I feel like the R-rating for Deadpool is a bit of a double-edged sword cause they allow themselves to go to far with the sex jokes & shit.

I mean Deadpool's not really a frat-boy kinda guy, he's more about surreal insanity and madness.

Edited by slimcoder on Nov 30th 2018 at 1:30:39 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#91429: Nov 30th 2018 at 1:29:42 AM

Deadpool actually turning into another good example of the same sort of thing as the Netflix shows as well.

One of the reasons I never really cared about the uproar over PG-13 Deadpool 2 is because there isn't really anything in that movie that requires it to be rated R in the first place. The bit where Juggernaut rips Deadpool in half, maybe, but by and large unlike the first film all that really builds the rating in the sequel is the aversion to Bloodless Carnage and everyone swearing like a sailor.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Nov 30th 2018 at 1:30:47 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#91430: Nov 30th 2018 at 3:59:52 AM

Dont the other hand it feel weird one need to justify a girtty take on a chararter much than a comedy one, it just sort of happen.

Also yeah, I prefer netflix to be grityt and serious because Marvel lack that, only the russo trilogy(so to speak) take seriously enough(well that and Black panther but black panther have other reason to do it), so netflix seen a good place to be.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#91431: Nov 30th 2018 at 4:42:32 AM

Netflix had a bunch of drawbacks, though. The shoestring budget above all. It is also kind of surprising that they never put someone in charge for the Netflix verse as a whole, unless you count Loeb. There was no overreaching vision. If there had been one, someone would have realized that having no less than three heroes whose story is basically "Can punch good and fights crime bosses" would backfire eventually.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#91432: Nov 30th 2018 at 5:59:53 AM

They did need an overarching showrunner, and at first that seemed like Drew Goddard, but then he left, and things started coming apart after that.

Punching crime bosses is most superheroes, so that wasn't the problem. You can get plenty of mileage out of that. They just all started hitting all the exact same structural beats, and while there were some things that set them apart — Luke Cage does great things with its giant ensemble — it still ends up in the same place, somehow. It's even weirder with Jessica Jones — what happened to all the mood and noir-ish mystery of the first season? Why all the subplots? Why copy Matt Murdock's meltdown when your main character already started at rock bottom?

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#91433: Nov 30th 2018 at 6:36:58 AM

Hopefully, Disney will bring them all back on either Disney+ or their own movies.

If that happens, can we please please PLEASE stop making them so depressing? The only one I ever managed to finish was DD season 1. JJ? Chickened out after episode 1. LC? Guess I lost interest. IF? Everyone just seemed hellbent on kicking Danny around.

I would watch a Heroes For Hire show.

Calling it now, that ends up getting announced for Disney+ somewhere in the future as the continuation for Luke Cage and Iron Fist.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#91434: Nov 30th 2018 at 7:08:55 AM

Honestly, I wouldn't mind the characters being rebooted. All of the Netflix shows had their good parts, but also some bullshit that came with it. Jessica Jones was the only one I'd really call a masterpiece, but then season two happened so nuts to that.

The Netflix shows were a solid first try, but there is definitely room for improvement.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#91435: Nov 30th 2018 at 7:26:00 AM

[up][up][up] Sure, but I think they made Luke Cage and Danny too much like a Daredevil copy. Gritty is fine, but those are two characters which actually work a little bit better if you insert a dose of humour and wish-fulfilment into their story.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#91436: Nov 30th 2018 at 7:49:15 AM

[up]Luke Cage was the story of a bullet proof black man protecting his community without need for a mask and was treated as a hero by all who knew him. How is that not wish fulfillment? And there was more humor in Luke Cage than pretty much any Marvel Netflix show. And not the mean spirited kind like Jessica Jones.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#91437: Nov 30th 2018 at 7:54:31 AM

[up] List me the people whose live was improved by Luke interfering or being close to them.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#91438: Nov 30th 2018 at 8:20:11 AM

We see whole crowds of people come together and cheer for Luke, more than once. He can barely walk down the street without somebody coming up to him and thanking him or wanting a picture with him.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#91439: Nov 30th 2018 at 8:26:56 AM

[up] And the next moment they swing signs with slogans against him. But in any case, this is pretty much along the line of an informed ability. We never actually see people whose live is better due to Luke being around. He never rescues or help anyone except Mariah other than the one time he stopped the robbery.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#91440: Nov 30th 2018 at 8:56:15 AM

I don't even know where to begin. You're completely cherrypicking your evidence to suit an argument you don't need to win to make your point.

Those aren't all the same people swinging those signs. They don't just cancel each other out, and you can't discount entire crowds of people because we didn't see Luke rescue each and every one of them. We see him do a lot more than just save Method Man and that store owner the one time — how many times did he go out and grab back someone's stolen cash or purse, or for that matter go in and pull their loved one out of a bad situation? Are you really going to say that keeping Cottonmouth/Diamondback/Mariah's enforcers from running their rackets, selling guns, intimidating locals, none of that improves people's lives? How much of the show do you want to be dedicated to showing it, before you can allow that it's something Luke does on a regular basis, offscreen, so now we can go on to with the plot?

Edited by Unsung on Nov 30th 2018 at 6:46:02 AM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#91441: Nov 30th 2018 at 9:36:14 AM

I only saw the first season of Luke Cage, but one thing I did like about was that it was probably the most upbeat out of the Netflix shows. Luke was just an ordinary guy who used his abilities to make Harlem a safer place. He had emotional baggage, but not to the extent Matt or Jessica had. He had more decisive victories against the villains, and when the season ultimately ended on a downer note, it felt meaningful because of how much he had to go through.

The first season has its problems, but it did seem to show that the Netflix shows didn't have to go too dark to be entertaining. Not that the other shows didn't benefit from being dark, but there was room to branch out a bit in terms of tone.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#91442: Nov 30th 2018 at 10:26:10 AM

What does everyone think of Cloak and Dagger? I tried the first episode but I couldn't get into it for some reason

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#91443: Nov 30th 2018 at 10:31:47 AM

Its pretty good. Nothing amazing, but definitely enjoyable. Very much a 'teen show.'

And its getting a second season so that's good news.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#91444: Nov 30th 2018 at 10:32:10 AM

Cloak and Dagger's alright, not one of my favorite MCU shows, but it's decent. The episode "Lotus Eaters" was by far the series highlight for me, so it might be worth checking that episode out if you want to give the show a chance.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#91445: Nov 30th 2018 at 10:34:39 AM

The first season of Luke Cage had a great protagonist, some strong atmosphere and engaging themes, and terrible villains.

For the first half, the show had a hard time legitimately threatening its invulnerable protagonist, which weakened the tension between Luke and Cornell. It never really felt like there was anything necessarily stopping Luke from just wading through the endless bullets and punching Cornell right in the nose.

It got to the point where it felt like the show was continuing not because Luke couldn't stop Cottonmouth, but just because he didn't.

And that was the better villain. Diamondback suffered immensely from a half-baked attempt at relating him to Luke. They spent a lot of time building up this scary, intimidating crime boss who could potentially take over and crunch Cottonmouth out, and then he was just one dude. I don't think he even had any mooks before he just sorta took Cottonmouth's.

Diamondback was able to physically threaten Luke, but only by using magic bullshit super-technology to just straight-up ignore the character's premise. I know it's hard to come up with a way to hurt a guy with unbreakable skin, but "What if I used super-breaking technology that can break unbreakable skin?" is a five-year-old's answer. It is truly impressive how lazy and uncreative the Judas Bullets were as a concept.

So lazy, in fact, that the vastly improved second season wastes no time in establishing that the Judas Bullets don't work anymore, can f*ck right off, and will never be spoken of again.

So. Yeah. Between the two, Cottonmouth winds up being the least shitty of the show's villains, but the show really doesn't hit its stride so far as the central conflicts are concerned until season two. There's a lot to like about the first season, but Luke's battles with the primary antagonists are not among those things.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#91446: Nov 30th 2018 at 11:08:10 AM

I highly recommend Cloak and Dagger. Granted, if you aren't into teen shows at all, you might not like it, but this is the least cliche and most mature teen show I have ever seen. It's also the only show in which I don't mind dream sequences at all.

Cloak and Dagger displays some really interesting storytelling.

Back to Luke Cage: The show also displays one of the biggest faults in the Netflix shows the most: the lack of proper built up and the unearned pay-off.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#91447: Nov 30th 2018 at 11:16:39 AM

I've only seen the first three episodes of Cloak and Dagger, but the third episode impressed me a lot. It's basically an extended dream sequence for both characters.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#91448: Nov 30th 2018 at 11:45:17 AM

I prefer Runaways to Cloak and Dagger. The overly use of those weird dream sequences got tiring pretty soon.

And while I liked Tyrone and Officer O'Reilly, Tandy really got on my nerves pretty quickly.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#91449: Nov 30th 2018 at 12:19:02 PM

See, I didn't like Runaways at all. The show was very...CW...and looked cheap. Cloak and Dagger makes the most out of its budget and gets really creative.

MegaJ Since: Oct, 2009
#91450: Nov 30th 2018 at 12:46:04 PM

Season 2 of Luke Cage, I would probably say is hands down the best Marvel season out of the Defenders shows, mostly due to the supporting cast gaining a lot more prominence (nothing against Mike Colter, he's decent enough at acting but doesn't really have the charisma of say, a Krysten Ritter where can she can just command the screen) and Alfre Woodward completely knocking it out of the park and I would say she's one of the best MCU villains TV or Movie-wise.


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