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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#91201: Nov 24th 2018 at 5:20:25 PM

I didn't mean that Harley is the prude. I mean that part of the fun of her character is her making those sexy poses in an outfit which actually isn't sexy at all.

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#91202: Nov 24th 2018 at 6:39:18 PM

It was the implication that Harley is not a sexualized character that is the issue, something I consider factually false no matter what criteria you use. Even the full body harlequin outfit is quite provocative because of the way she behaves.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#91203: Nov 24th 2018 at 6:50:58 PM

[up] Yes, but it is her behaviour which is "sexy", it is NOT the outfit.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#91204: Nov 24th 2018 at 7:12:30 PM

I can agree with the sentiment that she wasn’t originally much of a sexualized character, in large part because under Paul Dini Harley’s innocence is by and large the most visible and predominant aspect of her character.

I can only think of one appearance amidst her many DCAU appearances that even somewhat sexualizes her behavior, Mad Love, which was itself based off of a Darker and Edgier tie-in model, but in the early days Harley was largely portrayed as someone more childlike than mature. Even the bit in Mad Love comes with the punchline that she has no idea what she’s doing, and her one attempt at being sexy falls flat.

This carried over to her earlier appearances in the comics as well -it’s why her relationships (including with Ivy) - were largely hinted at though stealth gags and sly references rather than overt risqué behavior, because that’s what worked best with the character. This included her first comic run.

It’s comics, so she was still more sexualized than before in those early appearances, but iirc her transition from “harlequin” to “sexy harlequin” didn’t really start picking up until Arkham Asylum.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#91205: Nov 24th 2018 at 7:31:11 PM

[up]I will said that is because a change of personality: in the animated show Harley is pretty much joker fangirl and cheer leader, she is 100% good and dosent really get to know what she is doing.

The comics instead have make her into a chaotic neutral wild card to pretty much a deadpool expy a times(in the comic she even parner with a deadpool expy, redtool) which rank the sexualization a bit.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Drakon69 The dragon archnerd from greece Since: Oct, 2018 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The dragon archnerd
#91206: Nov 25th 2018 at 1:25:21 AM

slimcoder@ its really sad that this stupid outfit has grown to become so iconic

Edited by Drakon69 on Nov 25th 2018 at 11:25:49 AM

DRAGON DRAGON
FrozenWolf2 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#91207: Nov 25th 2018 at 4:55:45 AM

[1]

Man... the 70s and 80s had all the good drugs

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on Nov 25th 2018 at 6:56:13 AM

Praise be to the absolute Queen
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#91208: Nov 26th 2018 at 1:15:59 AM

Has anyone read the MCU Rewrites fanfics?

My various fanfics.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#91210: Nov 26th 2018 at 4:45:30 AM

No, but I've heard of them. Decent enough idea.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#91211: Nov 26th 2018 at 7:12:57 AM

I've never heard of them but I can see merit in the idea.

One of the advantages of adaptations and reboots is that they can be created with the full intent of the story in mind from the beginning. Like, the Tesseract wasn't supposed to be the Space Gem in "The First Avenger" which is why it just generically vaporizes stuff. However, a reboot or adaptation could write it as the Space Gem from the beginning, solidifying the foreshadowing with portals between Hydra facilities and teleporting tanks and shit.

I don't think rebooting the MCU is actually a good idea, mind. Just that because many of these movies were made film by film with only a vague idea of future plans, there is room to tighten up the storytelling.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 26th 2018 at 8:15:09 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#91212: Nov 26th 2018 at 7:52:53 AM

I have a preference for stories which fill the blanks in the MCU over actual rewrites. For Fanfictions, the movie verse should continue to move forward.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#91213: Nov 26th 2018 at 8:31:43 AM

You mean MCU Rewrites? Yeah, I've read them. I even successfully proposed Madame B. from the Black Widow story as a Complete Monster. I enjoyed them, but I do feel some of them have their flaws.

The Age of Ultron I think has better character moments than the film and is better paced, but I think Ultron was a very flat character in that. In the film, Ultron's motives changed on a whim and the humorous moments sometimes took away from his menace. But in the fic, while he's more serious, he's just a pawn in Thanos' scheme. I'm also disappointed the writer didn't introduce Vision here, since his scenes are my absolute favorites in Age of Ultron.

Black Widow and Ghosts of HYDRA are probably my favorites, but I wasn't a big fan of the Civil War rewrite. That's probably because I actually really liked the movie, but there were bits I think didn't work. It's more focused on the Sokovia Accords, but that means the fights are less personal. The climax isn't as emotionally driven as the film and it lacks the tragic elements that set that film apart. I also noticed there'd be a few lines that were from the film, but they make less sense in this story because they're in completely different contexts.

The stinger for Civil War definitely would've depicted a different version of Thor: Ragnarok, but I'm not sure if the series will continue.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#91214: Nov 26th 2018 at 11:27:15 AM

Do we know for sure the Tesseract was never meant to be the Space Stone from the start? Sure, it was mainly used to power energy weapons, but all the Stones can do things like that.

It pretty obviously opens up some kind of portal when it beams up Red Skull, the Tesseract was set up as the major MacGuffin of the Avengers earlier in Thor's post-credits scene, and The First Avenger came out not too long before The Avengers, which made it pretty clear the Tesseract was the Space Stone. I find it hard to believe that the creative teams involved in the movies didn't confer over that and set things up in advance.

The Scepter housing the Mind Stone I'm more willing to believe was a retcon, but it at least makes sense retroactively even if it makes Thanos look like a gambling loser who acquired negative-one Stones from the attack on Earth.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Nov 26th 2018 at 2:30:22 PM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#91215: Nov 26th 2018 at 11:31:02 AM

[up] Well, according to Joss Whedon he basically threw in Thanos at the end of Avengers.

I think it is pretty save to say that the goal of Phase 1 was simply: Introduce the heroes and then give them a reason to meet.

After Thanos was established, Phase 2 turned into: Let's introduce the Infinity Stones wherever possible.

Phase 3 then became: Let's introduce as many new heroes as possible while laying the ground for the big Thanos finale.

Also, I would mark Phase 1 the "Favreau" Phase, Phase 2 the "Whedon" Phase, and Phase 3 the "Russo" Phase. I guess Phase 4 was supposed to become the "Gunn" phase.

ComicFan Since: Sep, 2016
#91216: Nov 27th 2018 at 10:38:31 AM

Black Panther coming back to theaters for Giving Tuesday

Edited by ComicFan on Nov 27th 2018 at 10:40:15 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#91217: Nov 27th 2018 at 10:54:25 AM

Black Panther 2 already?!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#91218: Nov 27th 2018 at 11:09:56 AM

No, this is Once Upon a Black Panther, where Klaw returns to live in order to kidnap Fred Savage.

Well, according to Joss Whedon he basically threw in Thanos at the end of Avengers.
I believe Whedon was working on Avengers while they were making First Avenger, though, so I can entirely believe that when he introduced Thanos, Feige decided to make the Tesseract into the Space Stone as they were doing the SFX. Certainly, it looks like the Tesseract teleports the Red Skull instead of incinerating him.

I certainly don't think they knew about Thanos / Infinity Gauntlet before The First Avenger, since the entire Infinity Gauntlet shows up in Thor as a background cameo.

Edited by alliterator on Nov 27th 2018 at 11:13:58 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#91219: Nov 27th 2018 at 12:24:59 PM

The Cube teleporting the Skull looked a lot like the Bifrost, so the writers may have thought of it then as “it’s a Norse god item so it does Norse god things”, then found that easily translated into turning it into the Space Stone.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#91220: Nov 27th 2018 at 12:44:14 PM

Plus, if they had known, they would have ensured to have the colour scheme down.

Zanthype from The Tardis Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#91221: Nov 27th 2018 at 4:02:57 PM

Marvel's official site recently updated their character profiles and confirmed the popular theory that the scepter was influencing Loki and adding fuel to the fire.

Gifted with a Scepter that acted as a mind control device, Loki would be able to influence others. Unbeknownst to him, the Scepter was also influencing him, fueling his hatred over his brother Thor and the inhabitants of Earth.

I remember this being a huge thing for a while due to him being particularly viscous and violent in a way that we don't really see in any other movie and because of his very sickly looking state. There was also some talk by Tom Hiddleston about Loki's mind being warped, and later the Avengers DVD had a deleted scene of Loki and Selvig talking about how the scepter was speaking to them.

I'm definitely gonna be reading through the site later to see if they've dropped any other interesting details.

Edited by Zanthype on Nov 27th 2018 at 4:04:44 AM

"In 900 years of time and space I've never met anyone who wasn't important."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#91222: Nov 27th 2018 at 4:04:45 PM

Oh hey, good to see some hard confirmation on that theory. The eye change thing was still just a editing glitch, I'm sure, but the theory itself is true even without it.

Zanthype from The Tardis Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#91224: Nov 27th 2018 at 4:12:03 PM

[up][up]Oh that's right, there were quite a few scenes where Hiddleston's eyes were really bright blue. A lot of fans were wondering if it was the lighting making his natural blue eyes look more prominent, some kind of accidental color editing effect, or if it was meant to be a scepter side effect like Hawkeye's.

[up]Not every theory is Leather Pantsing. There were plenty of reasons for fans to wonder about the nature of the scepter and what it would do to its user. Good lord.

Edited by Zanthype on Nov 27th 2018 at 4:15:06 AM

"In 900 years of time and space I've never met anyone who wasn't important."
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#91225: Nov 27th 2018 at 4:18:52 PM

It was always a pretty blatant way of whitewashing and excusing Loki's acts in the Avengers because people couldn't accept their poor misunderstood woobie could have gone full Mussolini (despite an actual act of genocide in his previous film). If you held the theory for different reasons that's on you, but that was always the root of the theory.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

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