TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#90676: Nov 1st 2018 at 9:57:38 PM

If, somehow in Avengers 4, Tony Stark is just better at Dr. Strange's magic because "It's just science and I am the best at science", I will just be done.

Going back to The Defenders, I really wish there was a moment that just made the other three shut up. You had a magical cult with all this power and resources (granted, the fact that they were immediately running out of literally all of their resources made them look pathetically ineffectual from the getgo, but what can you do?), talking about how the heads of their organization were hundreds of years old, that they were involved in a holy war for the soul of the human race and civilization, literally raising people from the dead, and the Non-magical three just roll their eyes and go "Fuckin whatever, magic isn't real, it's just a bunch of weirdo nerds, let's beat them up and commit an act of domestic terrorism." I don't even remember them reacting to a literal dragon's skeleton under New York City.

If Danny had beaten them in a fight, or they watched someone rise from the dead in front of them, or some other undeniably supernatural occurrence happen right in front of their goddamn eyes/radar senses, and they had some reaction of "Huh. I guess we should take this seriously", it would have been at least a little bit better.

My various fanfics.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#90677: Nov 1st 2018 at 9:59:33 PM

I think there's a distinction to be made between magic that follows its own self-consistent rules (and so can be studied scientifically) and magic that is based (even if very loosely) on scientific knowledge we already have.

Like, Thor: Ragnarok had a dragon in its opening sequence, but since it's a creature on an alien planet, in a sub-series that's previously couched much of its mysticism in scientific terms, we can assume it's an alien creature that just happened to evolve into a form similar to the European idea of a dragon (or was possibly the inspiration for said idea). That's a bit different from a dragon just showing up on Earth, with no effort to explain how it fits into the Animal Kingdom as we know it.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#90678: Nov 1st 2018 at 10:03:29 PM

I mean, they did kind of explain Shou Lao. He's The Last of His Kind, his species used to be more common until the Hand discovered that snorting dragon bones gives you immortality. He's like a dinosaur, a big ol' reptile that's basically extinct. Also, K'un L'un is in another dimension.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#90679: Nov 1st 2018 at 10:04:02 PM

We discover things that defy what we know as science in the real world all the time, see the aforementioned dark matter and dark energy.
No, no, that's not what I meant. Let me try to explain...

Okay: in a normal fantasy story, magic has rules. It doesn't matter what those rules are, just that magic has them, therefore it can be defined, therefore it falls under the purview of "science." Wizards are therefore just magic scientists, blah blah.

But then you have something like, say, David Lynch's Lost Highway. In it, there's a strange Mystery Man who can somehow be in two places at once. The main character changes into a completely different person somehow. The entire story is a Moebius strip. And there is no explanation for it. This isn't fantasy, this is Magical Realism and it's magic is used not in any sort of way in which it can be defined, but in ways in which it can't be defined.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#90680: Nov 1st 2018 at 10:07:58 PM

Blah, blah, quantum entanglement, blah blah, time loops. Anything can be explained as long as you throw enough technobabble at it.

Sorry if that came off as rude, I was paralleling your usage of "blah blah" to show that I don't actually care too much about the explanation, just to show that it can be finagled.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Nov 1st 2018 at 10:08:35 AM

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#90681: Nov 1st 2018 at 10:12:52 PM

The magic in Harry Potter and LOTR has definable rules and also limitations to what it can and cannot do. Yet it's still freaking magic and is called such They don't pull the "oh it's just super-science" line.

Why the MCU cannot do something like that is beyond me.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#90682: Nov 1st 2018 at 10:20:18 PM

Anything can be explained as long as you throw enough technobabble at it.
But that's the point — at no point does anyone try to explain what's going on. Nobody even tries. There aren't any rules to this sort of surrealistic fantasy, because that's the point. Unlike with the other magic systems and rules, whatever magic that is happening is unknowable. You can try to explain the Lady in the Radiator all you want, but none of it matters. Science is about the real — but this is all about the surreal.

Of course, they probably will never do that type of surrealism in the MCU, but still: it exists.

The magic in Harry Potter and LOTR has definable rules and also limitations to what it can and cannot do. Yet it's still freaking magic and is called such They don't pull the "oh it's just super-science" line.
At no point in Doctor Strange do they call it "super science." They explain it to Strange like it's another branch of science (which it technically could be), but that's it.

Edited by alliterator on Nov 1st 2018 at 10:29:31 AM

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#90683: Nov 1st 2018 at 10:27:31 PM

That's a bit of potayto-patahto argument regarding Doctor Strange. It's not wrong, but it's not much help for people who wanted a more overtly mystical, mysterious kind of fantasy element in the setting. They're not wrong for wanting that, either.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#90684: Nov 1st 2018 at 10:30:13 PM

But they give us some of that, too:

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#90685: Nov 1st 2018 at 10:30:34 PM

This whole thing started when, right out of the gate, Thor said the line "Your ancestors called it magic. You call it science. Same fucking thing."

Or in Dark World, where Odin, All-Father and King of the Aesir, says the sentence "We're not Gods." Or when Jane immediately identifies Asgardian Magitek as a thing that already exists on Earth from a cursory glance. Or when the DARK ELVES had SPACE SHIPS and LASER GUNS.

And as long as I'm annoyed at things, Thor overloading the Iron Man armor to 400% energy capacity wouldn't have given Tony the strength to get his ass kicked a little less, it would have made him explode.

My various fanfics.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#90686: Nov 1st 2018 at 10:34:43 PM

[up][up]Nobody's saying they didn't. It's not about keeping score, dude. People still want more. If you don't share that opinion, that's okay too.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#90687: Nov 1st 2018 at 10:34:47 PM

All that was Phase 1, almost a decade ago. Phase 3 has mostly abandoned it.

It's not like they said the Infinity Gauntlet is powered by midichlorians or something.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Nov 1st 2018 at 10:35:04 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#90688: Nov 1st 2018 at 11:16:24 PM

Frankly, I don't care if they call it magic or science. Both are the same thing in comic books. Tony's suit isn't more or less realistic that Doctor Stranges handwaving.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#90689: Nov 1st 2018 at 11:19:33 PM

I just don't want Tony walking around calling himself "Scientist Supreme".

This song needs more love.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#90690: Nov 1st 2018 at 11:20:47 PM

[up][up] Its not about realism, its about the difference in style.

Its like saying there's no difference between Muay Thai & Karate just because their both martial arts.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#90691: Nov 1st 2018 at 11:33:40 PM

It's like saying boxing and krav maga are the same thing because they both involve hitting someone.

My various fanfics.
AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#90692: Nov 1st 2018 at 11:44:01 PM

tfw

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#90693: Nov 1st 2018 at 11:45:55 PM

I would say it is more like discussing if a pear or an apple is a better representation for a fruit.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#90694: Nov 1st 2018 at 11:49:19 PM

They are combat style’s, not snack-foods.

Both should have their own philosophies to keep them different from each other.

If not then making movies is fucking pointless, might as well stick to only one if ya can’t properly differentiate the two.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#90695: Nov 1st 2018 at 11:54:48 PM

[up][up]I kind of dread the reasoning where a comparison between martial arts is wrong on its face and one between fruit is infinitely more apt, but the same points still stand either way — there are differences between them, you're not wrong for liking one or the other because it's about personal opinion anyway, and it's not like you actually have to choose only one or the other. You can have both, at the same time even. All the peaches, apples, pears, and krav maga you want.

Edited by Unsung on Nov 1st 2018 at 12:57:52 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#90696: Nov 2nd 2018 at 12:04:26 AM

[up] I just wanted to clarify that narratively, it barely makes a difference. It fulfils the same function.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#90697: Nov 2nd 2018 at 12:04:27 AM

[up][up]Krav mango

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Nov 2nd 2018 at 3:04:38 PM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#90698: Nov 2nd 2018 at 12:07:03 AM

[up][up] So like every single superpower then?

By that logic why not give everyone the same abilities, just above-average physical strength, because after all it would make no difference to the narrative.

Just have everyone fight the same, no hammers, no lighting manipulation, no web-slinging, no claws, no wings, size-shifting, no nothing.

Edited by slimcoder on Nov 2nd 2018 at 12:08:05 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#90699: Nov 2nd 2018 at 12:10:09 AM

They're just saying that narratively, there's no difference between pseudo-science and magic, and they don't particularly care one way or the other about the aesthetic differences.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#90700: Nov 2nd 2018 at 12:12:40 AM

I have no idea where that “the heroes’s unique powers don’t ever change the narrative” argument comes. Smells very strawman.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Nov 2nd 2018 at 12:13:00 PM


Total posts: 186,763
Top