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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
I think there's a distinction to be made between magic that follows its own self-consistent rules (and so can be studied scientifically) and magic that is based (even if very loosely) on scientific knowledge we already have.
Like, Thor: Ragnarok had a dragon in its opening sequence, but since it's a creature on an alien planet, in a sub-series that's previously couched much of its mysticism in scientific terms, we can assume it's an alien creature that just happened to evolve into a form similar to the European idea of a dragon (or was possibly the inspiration for said idea). That's a bit different from a dragon just showing up on Earth, with no effort to explain how it fits into the Animal Kingdom as we know it.
I mean, they did kind of explain Shou Lao. He's The Last of His Kind, his species used to be more common until the Hand discovered that snorting dragon bones gives you immortality. He's like a dinosaur, a big ol' reptile that's basically extinct. Also, K'un L'un is in another dimension.
Okay: in a normal fantasy story, magic has rules. It doesn't matter what those rules are, just that magic has them, therefore it can be defined, therefore it falls under the purview of "science." Wizards are therefore just magic scientists, blah blah.
But then you have something like, say, David Lynch's Lost Highway. In it, there's a strange Mystery Man who can somehow be in two places at once. The main character changes into a completely different person somehow. The entire story is a Moebius strip. And there is no explanation for it. This isn't fantasy, this is Magical Realism and it's magic is used not in any sort of way in which it can be defined, but in ways in which it can't be defined.
Blah, blah, quantum entanglement, blah blah, time loops. Anything can be explained as long as you throw enough technobabble at it.
Sorry if that came off as rude, I was paralleling your usage of "blah blah" to show that I don't actually care too much about the explanation, just to show that it can be finagled.
Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Nov 1st 2018 at 10:08:35 AM
Of course, they probably will never do that type of surrealism in the MCU, but still: it exists.
Edited by alliterator on Nov 1st 2018 at 10:29:31 AM
This whole thing started when, right out of the gate, Thor said the line "Your ancestors called it magic. You call it science. Same fucking thing."
Or in Dark World, where Odin, All-Father and King of the Aesir, says the sentence "We're not Gods." Or when Jane immediately identifies Asgardian Magitek as a thing that already exists on Earth from a cursory glance. Or when the DARK ELVES had SPACE SHIPS and LASER GUNS.
And as long as I'm annoyed at things, Thor overloading the Iron Man armor to 400% energy capacity wouldn't have given Tony the strength to get his ass kicked a little less, it would have made him explode.
My various fanfics.I just don't want Tony walking around calling himself "Scientist Supreme".
This song needs more love.It's like saying boxing and krav maga are the same thing because they both involve hitting someone.
My various fanfics.tfw
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I kind of dread the reasoning where a comparison between martial arts is wrong on its face and one between fruit is infinitely more apt, but the same points still stand either way — there are differences between them, you're not wrong for liking one or the other because it's about personal opinion anyway, and it's not like you actually have to choose only one or the other. You can have both, at the same time even. All the peaches, apples, pears, and krav maga you want.
Edited by Unsung on Nov 1st 2018 at 12:57:52 PM
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So like every single superpower then?
By that logic why not give everyone the same abilities, just above-average physical strength, because after all it would make no difference to the narrative.
Just have everyone fight the same, no hammers, no lighting manipulation, no web-slinging, no claws, no wings, size-shifting, no nothing.
Edited by slimcoder on Nov 2nd 2018 at 12:08:05 PM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

If, somehow in Avengers 4, Tony Stark is just better at Dr. Strange's magic because "It's just science and I am the best at science", I will just be done.
Going back to The Defenders, I really wish there was a moment that just made the other three shut up. You had a magical cult with all this power and resources (granted, the fact that they were immediately running out of literally all of their resources made them look pathetically ineffectual from the getgo, but what can you do?), talking about how the heads of their organization were hundreds of years old, that they were involved in a holy war for the soul of the human race and civilization, literally raising people from the dead, and the Non-magical three just roll their eyes and go "Fuckin whatever, magic isn't real, it's just a bunch of weirdo nerds, let's beat them up and commit an act of domestic terrorism." I don't even remember them reacting to a literal dragon's skeleton under New York City.
If Danny had beaten them in a fight, or they watched someone rise from the dead in front of them, or some other undeniably supernatural occurrence happen right in front of their goddamn eyes/radar senses, and they had some reaction of "Huh. I guess we should take this seriously", it would have been at least a little bit better.
My various fanfics.