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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#90576: Oct 31st 2018 at 9:22:49 PM

Dude, is this really necessary? People will get over it, but it will take some time. The news just came out. Let people feel the way the feel about it.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#90577: Oct 31st 2018 at 9:23:37 PM

Given the MCU's typical lack of care for its television series, I can see where the apprehension comes from.

If Sam and Bucky do still continue to be prevalent in the movies and overall universe, it would definitely be an exception. At the very least, it does make it look likely that the Captain America mythos is going to be taking a backseat from the center stage for time being.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#90578: Oct 31st 2018 at 9:24:46 PM

[up][up]Except there's nothing to "get over." They aren't being demoted or fired. They are, in fact, getting more screentime. It just isn't the type of screentime that some fans want, because they are weirdly snobbish about television/streaming.

At the very least, it does make it look likely that the Captain America mythos is going to be taking a backseat from the center stage for time being.
This is pure speculation. Making AOS didn't mean the Nick Fury suddenly disappeared.

Edited by alliterator on Oct 31st 2018 at 9:26:36 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#90579: Oct 31st 2018 at 9:32:29 PM

Why would it? AOS wasn't Fury's show. He wasn't even a recurring character. At best, he made a very rare cameo.

On the flip side, it was Coulson's show. And neither Coulson nor any of the characters or concepts he's explored in that series have ever been reference in any of the movies since.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 31st 2018 at 9:34:01 AM

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#90580: Oct 31st 2018 at 9:33:55 PM

Seriously, is it really necessary to be so combative about this, or so dismissive? Movies and TV are different. They have different strengths, budgets, audiences. Take, for instance, Black Panther — there are certain stories you might not be able to tell in a two-hour runtime, sure, but you also wouldn't have gotten the same level of special effects, that cast, that soundtrack. And sometimes more time isn't better — just look at The Hobbit. Nobody is saying that The Falcon & Bucky Show is going to be bad, but people can still be disappointed that we're probably not going to get Sam Wilson, Captain America up on the big screen for the whole country and world to see. There's room to feel more than one way about it.

Edited by Unsung on Oct 31st 2018 at 10:35:03 AM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#90581: Oct 31st 2018 at 9:35:37 PM

And now he's out of the MCU filmverse.
The cast list for Captain Marvel says otherwise. And we're talking about the Captain America mythos, not Bucky or the Falcon specifically. Even if Bucky and the Falcon were off limits to the movies (which I doubt — the schedule for a 10 episode streaming show is a lot different from a 22 episode network show), the Captain America mythos and everything that entailed is still available for the movies to use, just like they use pieces of the SHIELD mythos.

And sometimes more time isn't better — just look at The Hobbit.
The Hobbit wasn't a TV show and it's problems extended waaaay beyond the movies being long. Seriousl, watch Lindsey Ellis's three-part video about those films, it's great.

Edited by alliterator on Oct 31st 2018 at 9:36:57 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#90582: Oct 31st 2018 at 9:36:48 PM

I think the only universe I know of that's serious about keeping all of it's content across its various mediums equally relevant is Star Wars (ironically enough, given that the older EU was the codifier for "levels of continuity"), and even in that case there's a strict mandate saying that no two current installments can have concurrent time periods or contexts.

The cast list for Captain Marvel says otherwise.

Captain Marvel takes place over a decade before the events of AOS. Which is likewise well before the first Avengers movie, the point where Coulson exited the films' continuity.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 31st 2018 at 9:39:48 AM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#90583: Oct 31st 2018 at 9:39:32 PM

Seriously, though, if fans are worried about not getting the impact of a Sam Wilson-Captain America movie, I understand that. There's a reason that Black Panther was so huge.

But don't deny that there isn't a segment of the MCU fandom that is incredibly snobbish about all the MCU TV shows. There are fans that think if it isn't a movie, it doesn't matter. Which fails to understand the entire purpose of the MCU and having an entire universe of characters.

Captain Marvel takes place over a decade before the events of AOS. Which is, as well, before the first Avengers, the point where Coulson exited the films' continuity.
That's moving the goalposts. They said Coulson was out of the MCU films, but he isn't. Nobody said it had to be present day Coulson. Of course present day Coulson won't be in any MCU movies — he's dead.

Also, like I stated before, the schedule for making a 22 episode network show is vastly different from a 10 episode streaming show.

Edited by alliterator on Oct 31st 2018 at 9:41:17 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#90584: Oct 31st 2018 at 9:42:03 PM

The separation doesn't come from the fans. It comes from Feige. Who runs the MCU, and has been very clear when prodded about it that he doesn't consider the events of the tv shows (or, at least, AOS) as relevant as the plans he makes for the movies.

Please don't try to make this about people disagreeing with you just making up their analysis of the situation simply because they're snobs.

That's moving the goalposts. They said Coulson was out of the MCU films, but he isn't.

Only if you very rigidly interpret "Coulson is out of the film continuity since his death" as "Coulson must never appear in a film ever again, even if it takes place before his death."

But that's an exaggeration at best, a gross misunderstanding of the reality of the situation at worst. To be honest, as an interpretation it doesn't make an awful lot of sense. Nobody here meant anything close to that.

Coulson can appear in Captain Marvel because it takes place before his death. That's the entire point.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 31st 2018 at 9:45:51 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#90585: Oct 31st 2018 at 9:43:42 PM

Hey I am not dismissive of the show’s.

Only AOS & that’s because it mostly focused on spy characters exclusively created for the show. tongue

I might tune in eventually just to see Mockingbird & Ghost Rider though.

Edited by slimcoder on Oct 31st 2018 at 9:43:53 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#90586: Oct 31st 2018 at 9:45:35 PM

Who runs the MCU, and has been very clear when prodded about it that he doesn't consider the events of the tv shows (or, at least, AOS) as relevant as the plans he makes for the movies.
Source please? And there's a difference between "relevant" and "relevant to the plans he is making." One is logistical, the other is thematic.

Only if you very rigidly interpret "Coulson is out of the film continuity since his death" as "Coulson must never appear in a film ever again, even if it takes place before his death."
You are still moving the goalposts. The sentence was "And now he's out of the MCU filmverse," not "And now he will only show up on movies set before his death."

Also, using Coulson as an example because he "died" is silly if people are worried about Bucky and Sam. Because, unless they, too, "die" and then come back, it won't be at all a similar situation to Coulson's.

Only AOS & that’s because it mostly focused on spy characters exclusively created for the show.
Daisy Johnson is straight from the comics.

Edited by alliterator on Oct 31st 2018 at 9:51:09 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#90587: Oct 31st 2018 at 9:51:08 PM

The sentence was "And now he's out of the MCU filmverse," not "And now he will only show up on movies set before his death."

I know what I meant because I'm the one who said it. It's not moving the goalposts because you're cherry picked interpretation of what I said was incorrect. This you not understanding what people are trying to say, and not being willing to understand what peopel are trying to say to you, because you'd rather they'd be "snobs" and thus in the wrong.

And this is the last time I'm going to tell you to cut it out. You were already toeing the line at that "snobs" comment, but tf you can't conduct a conversation like a reasonable person, this conversation needs to end.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 31st 2018 at 9:51:59 AM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#90588: Oct 31st 2018 at 9:51:45 PM

Okay, please, tell me what you meant.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#90589: Oct 31st 2018 at 9:53:33 PM

[up][up][up] Knew you were gonna say that & it sorta doesn't count cause it only comes in like several seasons after. Before that she appeared to be an unrelated character.

And of course due to synergy comic-Quake was changed to be more like her new show-self.

Even then I don't like Quake that much so she's not enough of a sell for me. tongue

Edited by slimcoder on Oct 31st 2018 at 9:53:56 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#90590: Oct 31st 2018 at 9:54:04 PM

You already know what was meant, because it was explained to you.

Only if you very rigidly interpret "Coulson is out of the film continuity since his death" as "Coulson must never appear in a film ever again, even if it takes place before his death."

But that's an exaggeration at best, a gross misunderstanding of the reality of the situation at worst. To be honest, as an interpretation it doesn't make an awful lot of sense. Nobody here meant anything close to that.

Coulson can appear in Captain Marvel because it takes place before his death. That's the entire point.

Your response to this was "nope, that's not it. You actually meant what I say you meant, because it helps me build my argument." Which means nobody is at any requirement to explain further: you've already made it clear you're not willing to listen, and I'm not going to just reclarify my words over and over again to someone who doesn't actually care. Frankly, you don't seem particularly interested in having a conversation.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 31st 2018 at 9:58:06 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#90591: Oct 31st 2018 at 9:55:28 PM

Man though now if AOS brought in motherfucking Taskmaster, then damn I'd be a fool not to watch it.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#90592: Oct 31st 2018 at 9:56:56 PM

I'd love to see Taskmaster in the Bucky / Sam show. I always thought it was a shame they never brought him up against Captain America in the films. Right now, I think the only person in the films he would work as an antagonist against is probably T'Challa.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 31st 2018 at 9:57:31 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#90593: Oct 31st 2018 at 9:59:18 PM

Indeed its a waste he's hasn't been used yet, he'd be a perfect recurring antag for the ground-tier heroes.

He could also work for Spider-Man, just have him be that skilled enough he can get around the strength difference.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#90594: Oct 31st 2018 at 10:02:08 PM

Knew you were gonna say that & it sorta doesn't count cause it only comes in like several seasons after.
It's literally the second season.

And of course due to synergy comic-Quake was changed to be more like her new show-self.
Only her haircut.

You already know what wasmeant, because it was explained to you.
No, you explained that my interpretation was wrong, but not what was the right interpretation. So let's go through them:

  1. "Coulson can't be used since his death." Okay, makes sense. Everyone in the Avengers thinks he's dead and he's busy running SHIELD, so it makes sense why he wouldn't be used. But Bucky and Sam are in a different situation — I don't know what's going to happen in A4, but it probably won't end with both of them dying, so they can just as easily reappear in another film.
  2. "Coulson can't used since his death, because the actor is busy filming the show." Also makes sense and would apply to Bucky and Sam's actors, since they would be filming their show, too. But, as I've also stated, a 10-episode streaming show has a very different schedule than a 22-episode network show — so after they are finished filming the show, they could also easily come back to be in a movie.
  3. "Coulson can't be used after his death because of the split between the movie and TV division." Well, that's been debunked, since he is being used, even if it's the past version of him.

Are any of these the right interpretations?

Also, I would love to see Bullseye in a Thunderbolts movie. Hell, they wouldn't even have to explain his backstory in DD — just say that he's an ex-FBI agent with incredibly aiming skills and a complete psychopath.

Edited by alliterator on Oct 31st 2018 at 10:02:55 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#90595: Oct 31st 2018 at 10:03:42 PM

[up][up] While I can definitely get behind Spidey fighting Taskmaster, I'd also prefer that kind of "merc who's such a good/smart physical combatant that he can endanger Spider-Man" role be taken by one of Spidey's classic enemies, like Kraven.

I've really thought an Avengers Academy movie series would work in the MCU for a while, and if we get - say - Finesse in a film like that, Taskmaster could work as an Anti-Villain Archnemesis Dad in that regard. That and/or maybe him showing up in a Thunderbolts movie.

[up] As I just told you, twice, that conversation is over. Drop it.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 31st 2018 at 10:07:00 AM

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#90596: Oct 31st 2018 at 10:09:36 PM

Didn't Taskmaster start out as an Ant-Man guy? Something about him being Scott Lang's sort-of archrival, except that Taskmaster has no idea who Scott is? Maybe play up his long-term memory loss and have him be an old guy, who fought Hank and Jan back in the Cold War — and now he's back, and they remember him, but he doesn't remember anything.

That, or— kind of wishing there was a Hawkeye movie in the pipeline, because that seems like a pretty good match.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#90597: Oct 31st 2018 at 10:11:58 PM

[up][up] Funnily enough I'd also like to see Kraven fight T'Challa especially since Kraven would be all about seeing who is the true King of Beasts.

I like the idea of villains appearing in multiple movies.

One movie Tasky fights T'Challa, next movie he fights Ant-Man.

It would sell the mercenary nature & that the world is connected.

Edited by slimcoder on Oct 31st 2018 at 10:12:36 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#90598: Oct 31st 2018 at 10:12:42 PM

That, or— kind of wishing there was a Hawkeye movie in the pipeline, because that seems like a pretty good match.
There might be a movie/show in the works.

[up][up] Taskmaster was always an Avengers villain, although he has fought single Avengers many times.

Edited by alliterator on Oct 31st 2018 at 10:14:10 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#90599: Oct 31st 2018 at 10:13:00 PM

Hawkeye's mythos stands out as the Avenger whose group of characters has gone mostly unexplored (with his family being OCs, iirc). Hulk, at least, has the excuse of the Universal deal preventing them from exploring gamma radiation and all the cool and interesting characters that come with it.

Not that Hawkeye has as much mythos as Hulk does on his own, but it'd still be nice to see Trickshot and/or Kate Bishop.

[up][up][up]

I think that was Crossfire. Or certain versions of him, at least: that sounds a lot like Earths Mightiest Heroes' backstory for him.

Taskmaster has fought Ant-Man in the past, but I don't think he has any specific animosity towards him.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 31st 2018 at 10:17:25 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#90600: Oct 31st 2018 at 10:14:59 PM

Though shit I'd kill for an Avengers Academy on the silver or gold screen.

Seeing my boi Mettle on any screen would be a real joy.

...... Huh is he still dead in the comics?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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