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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
It's not because there are clear ties. Ao S uses characters from the movies, it acknowledges events from the movies, hell, it even directly connects to some of them. If the movies had managed to stick some Ao S actors in the background of the Helicarrier in Age of Ultron we wouldn't even have this discussion. But even the movies acknowledge that people suddenly developing powers has become the new normal in the MCU.
Thor Ragnarok made me laugh out loud more than any other MCU film, so I have to count it as a success. It's different, which may or may not work for you depending on your comfort zone, but it's a sign that Disney/Marvel is secure enough in its franchise to experiment, and that's an unqualified victory for creativity if nothing else.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Well, they did, just VERY indirect. In Age of Ultron Fury talks about having to see some friends, without ever specifying. And Civil War has a subtle reference to Agent Carter when Sharon mentions that her aunt Peggy gifted the first garter pistol holder (or however it is called) to her. Peggy got hers from Jarvis Wife in the second season.
I mean, I would like a few more obvious references, but to me Agent Carter and Agents of Shield feel like they are not just path of the MCU, but also like shows which do flesh out the events in the movies. The other shows are a little bit different in that they just happen to be set in the same world.
Edited by Swanpride on Oct 23rd 2018 at 5:28:15 AM
Given that Fury’s comment pays off when his friends (in the Helicarrier he says was in mothballs) showed up later in the film, it’s difficult to spin that as a ref to AOS specifically.
AOS then tries to connect with the film by saying “yeah, that Helicarrier was with Coulson the whole time,” but like everything else it’s entirely one sided, and in the film’s side their references are all self contained into the film itself.
The only overt tv ref we ever got, iirc, is that newspaper article maybe, sorta referencing Daredevil in Infinity War, which would arguably make sense given Marvel Studios’ supposed stronger involvement in those shows. And even that reference is incredibly vague.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 23rd 2018 at 5:38:32 AM
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is an Expanded Universe work, and like most Expanded Universe works, it uses characters and plot points from the main Canon (even filling in backstory left unexplained in the main work), and makes a deliberate effort not to make any big changes to the setting or canon characters that are likely to be contradicted by future canon. However, the writers of the canon works entirely ignore the Expanded Universe's existence, and the longer both go on for, the greater the likelihood that something that happens in canon will blatantly contradict what happens in the EU.
Edited by RavenWilder on Oct 23rd 2018 at 7:15:26 AM
But that doesn't make AOS (nor any of the other shows) out of canon.
Edited by alliterator on Oct 23rd 2018 at 12:42:32 PM
So, how's your current ranking of the Marvel Netflix series/seasons?
Mine would be:
- 1. Daredevil Season 3
- 2. Punisher Season 1
- 3. Jessica Jones Season 1
- 4. Daredevil Season 1
- 5. Luke Cage Season 2
- 6. Jessica Jones Season 2
- 7. Defenders Season 1
- 8. Daredevil Season 2
- 9. Iron Fist Season 2
- 10. Luke Cage Season 1
- 11. Iron Fist Season 1
And the major criticism really only starts at 10, more specifically with the second half of LC Season 1.
Edited by Forenperser on Oct 23rd 2018 at 9:39:03 PM
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% ScandinavianGrain of salt, but a possible leaked set image
from Avengers 4 showing Pepper Potts as Rescue.
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I'd put Iron Fist Season 2 much higher on that list. Same with Daredevil Season 2. Really, only the last half of DD S2 wasn't that great — the first half was amazing. IF S2 was pretty good and then got great at the very end. Defenders I thought started off strong, but ended weak, so that would go below those two.
Edited by alliterator on Oct 23rd 2018 at 12:45:15 PM
"So far the movies have only contradicted what happens in their own continuity."
To be fair taking the two are kinda sketchy, like hydra being alien cult and the whole hive stuff would ensure the avenger or some hero act or the have there is inhumans rise all over the world that didnt got a mention.
"and that's an unqualified victory for creativity if nothing else."
.....no, I mean if anything Thor is just being marvel humro but on crack, they finally stop giving a shit about seriousness and rampt the comedy tenfold.
Which if anything, make the whole hela plot confusing.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"![]()
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Ranked purely in terms of my personal enjoyment rather than technical quality:
- Daredevil S1
- Punisher S1
- Luke Cage S2
- Iron Fist S2
- Defenders S1
- Jessica Jones S1
- Daredevil S3
- Luke Cage S1
- Iron Fist S1
- Jessica Jones S2
If we were going based on production quality, Jessica Jones S1 would be ranked higher and Defenders S1 would be ranked much lower, but this is purely based on my personal enjoyment; I mostly watch these shows for the action, so the former being a relatively low-key show and the latter being lots of flashy combat over a shallow plot skew their rankings somewhat unfairly.
The one I'm having trouble placing is Daredevil S2 because its quality is so inconsistent and bipolar. It has some of the highest highs of the entire Netflix MCU but also some of the lowest lows and I can't quite figure out where it falls as a consequence. I really enjoyed watching it but I acknowledge how messily it fell apart in its latter half.
Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Oct 23rd 2018 at 4:23:27 AM
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!Based on a mixture of personal enjoyment and actual quality….
1. Jessica Jones season 1 (hard to rewatch, but thematically the strongest)
2. Daredevil Season 1 (frankly, it's mostly two particular episodes which ensures that I don't rank it lower)
3. Iron Fist season 2 (what? I enjoyed it! And it has the perfect length)
4. The Punisher (which would be higher if not for the NRA propaganda episode)
5. Luke Cage season 2
6. Daredevil season 3 (I think..frankly, two days earlier I would have ranked it higher, but the more I think about it, the more I wish that it would retreat less done ground)
7. Iron Fist season 1 (Hey, I enjoyed it. It has a way higher rewatch value for me than the other shows).
8. Daredevil season 2 (to be clear here, the first four episodes are a-ma-zing. But the back-half with the hand is the worst nonsense they ever put together, and even worse, the badness infects everything related to the hand which came after. Thanks, I hate it).
9. Luke Cage season 1 (again, first half, amazing, back half, boring, tonally confusing and just not up to par).
10. The Defenders (I could write a really, really long issue about all the wrong decisions which lead to it).
11. Jessica Jones season 2 (I hated pretty much everything about it after the first two episodes).
Before someone screams at me regarding Iron Fist being so high: Sue me. I like Ward. I like Colleen. I don't always LIKE Joy, but she is always interesting to watch. And Danny, well, let's put it this way: Other than Jessica I think that ALL of the Defenders are pretty bland characters. Matt is annoying with his BS and his dramatic scenes rarely feel earned, his show is entirely carried by the strength of the respective villain he has to deal with and by Foggy. Luke is more a symbol than an actual character. Danny has this whole naive bright-eyed outlook going on, but that is actually something I happen to like in leads, mostly because it has become so rare, but above all, he has easily the strongest supporting cast of them all (other than perhaps Jessica pre season 2). And what is called a weakness of the show, meaning the whole boardroom scenes in season 1 and the focus on Colleen in season 2, I actually see it as a strength because it allows characters which are way more layered than the standard hero/antihero a moment to shine.
Given that the general comparison with Expanded Universe is the old Star Wars EU (as apposed to the current Star Wars EU, which is making far more of an effort to have everything count), which included TV shows that operated more or less the same way canon wise, I think the use is somewhat apt. The situation is arguably more complicated on paper, but in practice it comes out to the same.
There was also that debacle with AOS attempting to make a big plot out of their characters wiping out all of HYDRA, presumably assuming the movies were done with them, only for the films to ignore that and have HYDRA still be around and kicking (if weakened), forcing AOS to follow up with a second story where it turns out they didn't actually get rid of all of HYDRA after all the first time around, just a large part of it, but this time they're totally going to wipe them out completely for realsies.
IIRC, eventually they just gave up trying to give a definitive answer for the state of HYDRA, probably to avoid that kind of problem in the future.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 23rd 2018 at 2:45:28 AM
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I am not quite sure what you are talking about….It's Hydra. Cut off a head and two will grow in its place is a thing. Hydra was never completely wiped out, even after Ao S managed to create a huge hit against it in season 2, the season ended with clarifying "nope, still Hydra people around ready to regroup".
If we comparing with Star Wars' old EU, then they had "tiers" to their canon, with the movies being "absolute" canon, while everything else was subject to change if the movies contradicted it. The MCU doesn't have that and so far, they haven't contradicted anything the shows have done. They just haven't referenced them, which, see: writing schedules and so on.
Speaking of continuity...a short video about Marvel paying incredible attention to it.
I especially like the bits regarding the picture and the photos...the set designers really do an incredible job when they aren't busy writing two different death dates on the same prop.
Edited by Swanpride on Oct 23rd 2018 at 3:29:58 AM

That's something of a distinction without a difference. If the movies don't act as though the show isn't within their continuity, then the show isn't in their continuity - it's in it's own continuity based on the movies' continuity.