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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#90326: Oct 19th 2018 at 8:48:26 PM

Not all the adaptational changes work equally well, and Gamora and Mantis get damseled pretty hard, it must be said.

Yeah, Mantis got screwed too. Like that part where she is clearly a slave, everyone knows she's a slave, and not one person is at all bothered by it. The only person who has any strong feelings about Mantis's situation is Gamora, and those feelings are hating Mantis's face instantly because female characters are always obligated to be catty with each other five seconds after meeting in media.

Yeah, I really do think a female director could do wonders for this franchise.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 19th 2018 at 9:48:55 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#90327: Oct 19th 2018 at 9:03:58 PM

Gunn's Gamora and Drax were never the best adaptions of their characters. I've maintained that opinion since day one.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#90328: Oct 19th 2018 at 9:04:53 PM

It couldn't hurt. I'd like to see more of her past life, the bloody work she's trying so hard to put behind her.

I kind of liked her getting some additional focus in Infinity War, but that does end up being more characterization for Thanos than for her, and she and Peter also go all Official Couple when I was actually hoping they'd break up. Whether or not to get back together again, who knows, but I don't really like the idea that she's the one who has to relax her standards when it seems like Peter's only gotten to be more childlike since the first movie.

Edited by Unsung on Oct 19th 2018 at 10:39:59 AM

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#90329: Oct 19th 2018 at 9:10:00 PM

Wait Quill and Gamora aren't a thing in the comics?

Yeah that makes the movies doing it way worse.

This song needs more love.
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#90330: Oct 19th 2018 at 9:11:21 PM

On a more positive note, I wish movies like Infinity War were looked at more seriously. Because my God, Chris Pratt, Zoe Saldana, and Chris Hemsworth do the best acting of their careers in that movie

My various fanfics.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#90331: Oct 19th 2018 at 9:21:53 PM

Yeah, Mantis got screwed too. Like that part where she is clearly a slave, everyone knows she's a slave, and not one person is at all bothered by it.

I mean, the Guardians are rogues and outlaws. People keeping slaves may just be common practice in the circles they run in. Heck, Quill was essentially Yondu's slave for most of his life, but by the end of the movie he's looking back on that experience fondly.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#90332: Oct 19th 2018 at 9:22:03 PM

I really liked Drax's advice to Quill in Guardians 2: "You need to find someone who's pathetic like you."

Then the movie asserted that we were actually supposed to be on Quill's side of that and it was less awesome.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#90333: Oct 19th 2018 at 9:26:30 PM

I thought Mantis was supposed to be seen more as Ego's adoptive daughter. At least, at first.

There has been nothing to convince me Gamora and Drax are anything but Badass Normal aside from the time she picked up that big gun.

Well, there was that whole thing where Gamora held onto Drax via a giant steel cable while the ship they were on was crashing at hundreds of miles an hour and Drax smashed through multiple thick trees on the way. I feel like there are some moments from the first movie, too, but that seems pretty clear to me.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#90334: Oct 19th 2018 at 9:29:46 PM

So Gamora had a thing with Richard Ryder.

...in other words, she's a dic...

<bricked into oblivion>

...s-someone...will finish...what I started...

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#90335: Oct 19th 2018 at 9:30:47 PM

Yes, yes she’s figuratively a Dick Ryder.

There I finished the obvious joke.

You can finally Rest In Peace Rob.

Edited by slimcoder on Oct 19th 2018 at 9:35:09 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#90336: Oct 19th 2018 at 9:33:59 PM

Figuratively, not literally.

But I'll do you one better, she was Dick Rider's dick rider.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#90337: Oct 19th 2018 at 9:34:44 PM

If the part where she admits that she never learned social interaction and has never been asked a personal question before didn't give it away right off the bat, the part where she openly and literally refers to Ego as "My Master" on the ride to "his planet" is pretty glaring. There's pretty much no getting around the fact that she is clearly, blatantly, irrefutably a slave.

Her next scene straight up owns it, but puts it in Drax's mouth so we can laugh at the wacky situation she's in.

  • Drax: How did you get to this weird, dumb planet?
  • Mantis: Ego found me in my larva state. Orphaned on my homeworld. He raised me by hand, and kept me as his own.
  • Drax: So you’re a pet?
  • Mantis: I suppose.
  • Drax: People usually want cute pets. Why would Ego want such a hideous one?

This then diverges into the "LOL So Ugly" gag that is the only part of the conversation the fandom remembered. Mantis's blatant slavery goes on without comment.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 19th 2018 at 10:35:28 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
MrHellboy The Shadow from A world of my own Since: Dec, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Shadow
#90338: Oct 19th 2018 at 10:50:58 PM

Now you put it that way, the Guardians really are kind of horrible people, aren't they?

The only really decent one was Groot, but once he was reborn, he became just as much of an ass as the rest of them

Hell, in Infinity War, when answering the distress call before they found Thor, Star-Lord, Drax and Rocket all pretty much agreed to leave whoever it was to die if they didn't pay them- after stealing their money, of course

Edited by MrHellboy on Oct 19th 2018 at 12:52:22 PM

The hardest thing in this world is to live in it.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#90339: Oct 19th 2018 at 10:51:34 PM

Wait Quill and Gamora aren't a thing in the comics?

Yeah that makes the movies doing it way worse.

I actually totally understand why they did it in the films and am okay with it, for the simple reason that they don't hook up in Vol 1 or 2. (Yes, they are together in Infinity War, but all the Guardians are slightly off character in that film.) Like Lindsay Ellis points out in her video, both characters are spiky balls of insecurities and that doesn't just go away.

With Mantis, I think it's understandable because, really, only Drax hears that she's a slave and a lot of things go over his head. The rest probably think she's merely a servant. And the others have a ton on their mind.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#90340: Oct 19th 2018 at 11:21:30 PM

How dare you. Nothing goes over his head.

My various fanfics.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#90341: Oct 19th 2018 at 11:25:08 PM

Quill, Drax, and Gamora all hear the "My Master" line.

Only Drax is there for the "pet" conversation, but Gamora comes in at the end of the talk to object to Mantis being ugly. She is alarmingly silent on the topic of Mantis being a pet.

  • Drax: This gross bug lady is my new friend.
  • Mantis: I’m learning many things, like I’m a pet and ugly.
  • Gamora: You’re not ugly. Drax!

Seriously, it's so weird how accepting these characters are of her enslavement.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#90342: Oct 19th 2018 at 11:34:53 PM

Slavery seems pretty common in space, between the Kree, the Ravagers, the Collector, the Grandmaster and his whole bloodsport arena, people with mind control abilities, etc. Space kind of sucks.

But knowing how much space sucks, it doesn't really surprise me that they don't get Mantis' situation at first glance. I imagine they turn a blind eye to a lot of things, given that they're still kind of partway criminals, at the very least mercenaries who we already knew have wobbly moral compasses at best.

Edited by Unsung on Oct 19th 2018 at 12:59:28 PM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#90343: Oct 19th 2018 at 11:38:18 PM

"Master" isn't a term exclusively used for slave-master relations. It's not an uncommon term in voluntary, paid manservant professions such as valets, butlers, maids, ect.

I figured that the non-Drax Guardians simply assumed Mantis was Ego's live-in handmaid/foster daughter/sleep aid since she never indicated otherwise, and neither Mantis nor Drax himself really understood the whole "pet" terminology he was talking about.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#90344: Oct 19th 2018 at 11:42:18 PM

Quill, Drax, and Gamora all hear the "My Master" line.
Which is why I think they probably assumed she was a servant. Hell, how many times has Alfred called Bruce "Master Bruce"?

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#90345: Oct 20th 2018 at 1:40:51 AM

I am wondering...I have the feeling that Netflix has decided that the Marvel shows are too expensive. I mean, shooting in New York is never cheap. And why paying that much money if you can just as well churn out those cheap romcoms which were apparently a huge success in terms of viewers? I mean, why should they even bother trying to retain the Marvel viewers, they can just assume that most of us will be too lazy to cancel the subscription, at least initially.

I wouldn't be surprised if Jessica Jones is cancelled next.

Regarding the rumours that someone important in Luke Cage insisted on a better pay day: The only one who is irreplaceable it Luke Cage himself. So most likely just a rumour.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#90346: Oct 20th 2018 at 6:58:53 AM

Given how bad some of the seasons have managed to be (DD2, IF1, JJ2) without getting cancelled, I do wonder if Disney's streaming service has something to do with this. Not that Disney's planning to move the shows, mind you; quite the opposite.

Netflix may have been pretty lenient in the past about the shows being disliked by their subscribers because Disney's a big f*cking contract to have. It's not just a few shows of varying quality, it's also Star Wars. It's also MCU films. It's Disney movies and shorts. That's a business relationship you want to keep going.

But then Disney was like, "We're making our own service so Netflix can get f*cked," and so that contract isn't in play anymore. So now Netflix is looking at the MCU shows they're producing like, "Is this actually any good? If I was producing this for literally any other studio, would I renew it?"

In essence, Netflix is no longer under any incentive to grit their teeth and go, "Yes. Yes, Iron Fist is a fine show and nobody hates it tremendously."

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 20th 2018 at 8:00:47 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#90347: Oct 20th 2018 at 7:27:53 AM

They’ve still produced more good seasons than bad and even the bad seasons they produced, only one really got Inhumans-level panning.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#90348: Oct 20th 2018 at 8:04:02 AM

Eh, the shows have been a massive draw for subscribers and have managed to break the Netflix stream twice due to the high interest. Sure, they haven't had the same kind of buzz lately, so they are most likely not drawing in any new ones, but, well, if those shows are suddenly gone, who says if some subscribers don't leave in reaction?

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#90349: Oct 20th 2018 at 12:05:42 PM

But keep in mind, Netflix isn't like a conventional TV network, where attracting an audience depends entirely on what new content they're putting out. Even if they stop producing the Marvel shows, the seasons they have produced will remain on their site permanently, and can continue to be used as a selling point for getting the service; after all, if you haven't seen it, it's new to you.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#90350: Oct 20th 2018 at 1:56:43 PM

[up] Their rewatch value is frankly not high enough imho. And if you are really into it, well, you can just buy the Blue Rays.


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