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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
That's not really an argument given that he also didn't mention Wanda's very recent actions during the incident with Rumlow.
His examples seemed very randomly picked. New York, Sokovia and Washinton were hardly the only instances of civilian collateral damage happening around the Avengers.
Do we even know what the exact legal content of the Accords are? All we have are biased second-hand accounts of the script, but no hard citation of it. It's like discussing a book in school without any person in class, who actually have read it. This only leads to wild speculations.
I am a simple man, I like stories therefore I dissect and discuss them.Yeah, one side is all 'It's only to keep superpowered individuals from doing collateral damage!' while the other is like 'They are putting us in camps next!' Truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% ScandinavianI don't think that it matters what the actual wording is, what matters is how they get implemented. Though, notable, a lot of things which come true later on are exactly the same concerns Team Cap voices in the discussion. Same for the concerns Team Tony voices, btw. That's exactly what makes the movie so good, that everyone is in principle right.
Edited by alliterator on Sep 27th 2018 at 1:22:42 AM
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Nice deflection, but you are not addressing my point. The implementation of law depends on the spirit or the letter of the law. You are suggesting that we should ignore the existence of the letter completely and only discuss the spirit. But you can not argue for any spirits if you do not have any letter to derive it from in the first place. That is why actual legal texts are so convoluted and boring to read because every word has been meticulously chosen to avoid confusion.
I can also say that all parties involved were wrong and the whole movie is bad. But that is not true of course.
I think this Civil War fuss is just the result of my biggest complaint towards the MCU, the lack of Worldbuilding, especially concerning international relations. I mean in the first Avengers and Captain America: Sons of Liberty SHIELD was under the jurisdiction of a so-called World Security Council, what the hell does that even mean? An US American Intelligent Service following orders from foreign leaders?
Edited by FictionAddiction on Sep 27th 2018 at 10:44:17 AM
I am a simple man, I like stories therefore I dissect and discuss them.![]()
Yeah right, so (just on top of my head) the fight between Abomination and Hulk left no casualties behind? Ivan Vanko's attack on the race and his later attack on the exhibition (during which Tony fought with him) ? Thor's fight with the Destroyer? The dimension jumping during the fight with Malekith?
Ross wans't even done with his demonstration, Cap told him that the shown footage was enough and he stopped showing the pictures.
Edited by Forenperser on Sep 27th 2018 at 10:42:24 AM
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% ScandinavianEdited by alliterator on Sep 27th 2018 at 1:45:45 AM
Then you remember it wrong. Before Abomination turned his attention to Hulk, he was throwing civilians around like ragdolls, thrashing military vehicles and what not. You also didn't adress the race, where Ivanov split several race cars in HALF, with them exploding. No way any driver survives that. Hulk's and Tony's fight continued through several populated buildings. I think it's extremely unlikely that nobody got killed there. Reason Ross didn't bring it up? Because Banner wasn't even there. And he already mentioned him beforehand, comparing him to a nuke.
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% ScandinavianOh, and Ross also mentioned in the Hulk's own movie that he was directly responsible for the deaths of several military personell. He didn't bring that up during the CW conversation either. Strange ;)
Edited by Forenperser on Sep 27th 2018 at 10:53:51 AM
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% ScandinavianAnd yeah, what Wanda did is much more 'getting away with something', given that she willingly supported Ultron and caused tons of damages and probably casualties as well with her mind raping of the Hulk.
Welp! Someone played the Wanda card. I now officially declare that we should kill everyone for everything.
One Strip! One Strip!![]()
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You mean a conventional action blockbuster can not do it. And this why the issue is so vague and formless, the real reason the conflict exist is to excuse the action figure slug-fest and nothing else, the movie even drops this plot half in for some "You killed my mother" vs "He is my boyfriend" drama.
(At the 0:52 mark)
Hulk attacks a vehicle with two occupants, grabbing and throwing out the passenger. When cops shoot at him, Hulk kicks a car into them.
Edited by Tuckerscreator on Sep 27th 2018 at 3:30:52 AM

The accords in Ao S are deeply problematic too. No, it is not just "sign here until we call you", it's "sign here and no matter if you even want to be an agent or not, we will tag you and constantly track you". And what happens? The Watchdog hack into the list and then use it to kill Inhumans (and remember, not all Inhuman abilities are even good for attacking or defending)
You really don't have to look that deep into history to understand why putting people on lists is a terrible idea.
The thing with the accords is that while the basic principle that The Avengers can't just constantly operate outside the law and need a set of rules is completely correct, the accords itself are deeply flawed because they don't provide a proper framework for them. Instead they are basically taking away the rights of the Avengers without offering any kind of legal protection in return. Quite the opposite in fact. It becomes clear pretty much immediately that the Accords in their current form are basically a free for all for the people in charge (in this case the US government) to do with powered people whatever they want. Tag them, lock them away, kill them on sight, all without due process.
And that is NOT okay in ANY reality. Which is exactly the reason why in the end Tony shuts Ross away and basically refuses to look for the other Avengers. And why Rhodey is doing the same in Infinity war.