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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#89426: Sep 21st 2018 at 5:07:23 PM

It's like saying that Captain America's a bad character while simultaneously refusing to use any incarnation of him except the 50's Cap who punched out Commies. Like, okay, that version of him kinda sucks, but he's done other things too.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 21st 2018 at 6:06:58 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#89427: Sep 21st 2018 at 5:07:46 PM

I'm Jewish as well and here's my two cents:

I'd be pretty unhappy about a version of Magneto which entirely removed his Jewishness/Holocaust survivor background. Because not only do I think it's important to the character but as a generality, despite there actually being a trope arguing that Jews are over-represented in media/ ''shouldn't'' be represented in media, in reality, I'd argue there's actually a lack of Jewish representation, especially in adaptations of comic characters (in terms of both who is adapted and whether their Jewishness is given much if any focus).

So @windleopard, although I kind of agree on your larger point (more on that below), I find it pretty offensive to dismiss the desire of people who don't want "gentile-washing" of Magneto by saying, "Yes there will be complaints. I'm not blind to that. I just don't care."

That being said, I do certainly agree that especially where Magnneto is one of the few/only Jewish characters, it has problems to use his Holocaust survivor backstory as an arguably cheap Freudian Excuse for his villainy. Although I think it's a quite good movie, I'm definitely troubled by the take in First Class where Magneto is pretty much outright a Jewish Nazi. And ultimately proud of it.

But as in other things, I'd argue that the solution is not to get rid of Jewish representation, it's to have more Jewish representation. So like for example have a version of Kitty Pryde that's proud (pun unintended) to be Jewish. And I don't know, maybe cast Alison Brie as Songbird too. Not to mention other Jewish characters like Moon Knight, Hulkling, and Ben Grimm. Not to mention, Magneto himself doesn't really have to be villainous. He's gone long strings in the comics as an anti-hero, and I think you could do interesting things with exploring the angle of him being a separatist rather than a supremacist, and/or just having him as an Aloof Ally good guy from the outset.

Lastly, as I've mentioned in previous discussions of this, I'd suggest Jason Isaacs to play him, given that he's actually Jewish, it's a role that fits his general typecasting, and because he basically looks like a combination of Ian McKellen and Michael Fassbender.

Edited by Hodor2 on Sep 21st 2018 at 7:13:26 AM

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#89428: Sep 21st 2018 at 5:13:11 PM

In my opinion, an MCU X-Men series should hold off on using Magneto for quite a while, 'cause he's been so prominent in all the Fox movies, we could really stand to take a break from him.

And if Magneto isn't introduced until we're three or four movies deep into a new series, then by that point we could have gotten some version of Genosha with a lot of Holocaust parallels for mutants, and that can be Magneto's origin story.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#89429: Sep 21st 2018 at 5:13:31 PM

All I want is a Nightcrawler movie. While I have argued the point, ultimately I don't really care about Magneto because he's been dobe justice before.

Also, a Juggernaut disaster movie. What do you guys think?

[up]Brilliant! And you don't even need to make him not Jewish, either.

You could also characterize Dr Sinister as a Yosef Mengele figure mixed with Mad Scientist for flavor.

Edited by HailMuffins on Sep 21st 2018 at 9:18:42 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#89430: Sep 21st 2018 at 5:17:10 PM

Just thinking of the other Nightcrawler film that came out in 2004 makes me think they might need to choose a different name

(belive me I was really tempted to say "But there already was a Nightcrawler film that came out in 2004 but that would be too easy)

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#89431: Sep 21st 2018 at 5:19:33 PM

Incidentally, and I know this is a fanficky idea that is very unlikely to ever be used, but if they didn't just go the route of retarded aging being part of Combo Platter Powers (I don't know, maybe something to do with iron in the blood?), I'd suggest having him receive a version of the super soldier serum or Wolverine's blood as a boy during the liberation of the camps. And that would be the explanation of how he looks relatively young for someone who was a boy in the 1940's.

Edited by Hodor2 on Sep 21st 2018 at 7:22:18 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#89432: Sep 21st 2018 at 5:21:44 PM

I'd be fine with a simple hand-wave that all Mutants have longer lifespans than normal Humans, and Wolverine's healing factor just makes him live WAY longer.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#89433: Sep 21st 2018 at 5:31:16 PM

“Homo superior!” -gets senior discount on a movie and then goes on a ten mile jog-

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#89434: Sep 21st 2018 at 5:32:17 PM

[up][up][up]Let’s not use the r-word. :/

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Sep 21st 2018 at 5:31:54 AM

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#89435: Sep 21st 2018 at 5:33:39 PM

Yeah. I didn’t like that phrasing either, but couldn’t think of a better antonym for “heightened”. I guess delayed might work but that implies he’d eventually have Rapid Aging.

Also, I do agree that it’s simpler to have it that all mutants age more slowly than humans but I think that opens the door to haveing to make multiple characters Older Than They Look. So I think I’d lean in favor of it just being a quirk of Wolverine and Mags’ powers.

Edited by Hodor2 on Sep 21st 2018 at 7:37:42 AM

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#89436: Sep 21st 2018 at 5:39:29 PM

"Extended Longevity"? I think that's what they used to call it in the character profile listings they used to put out before wikis were a thing.

[down]I mean, I assume they're aware of that. The first two parts, not negligible senescence, necessarily.

...Negligible senescence, necessarily, ce n'est-ce pas?

Edited by Unsung on Sep 21st 2018 at 7:02:15 AM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#89437: Sep 21st 2018 at 5:51:26 PM

"Retarded" in this context has nothing to do with its use as a pejorative truncation.

We still use the term fire-retardant for chemicals that extinguish fires, for example.

Though if you're looking for a more technical term to describe slowed aging, "negligible senescence" might do.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Sep 21st 2018 at 8:55:45 AM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#89438: Sep 21st 2018 at 5:59:07 PM

Yeah, context is important.

Also, while we are on the subject, what lineup of X-Men the MCU should use?

My first pick should be obvious by now (it's Nightcrawler, btw), the other ones would be Boom-Boom, Blink, Sunspot (Black, of course) and his buddy Cannonball.

Edited by HailMuffins on Sep 21st 2018 at 10:15:16 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#89439: Sep 21st 2018 at 5:59:42 PM

> We still use the term fire-retardant for chemicals that extinguish fires, for example.

And Physics uses the word retarded a lot too

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#89440: Sep 21st 2018 at 6:19:02 PM

I thought negligible senescence was for animals that display no measurable signs of aging whatsoever, not animals that have long lifespans. A hypothetical Magneto who lives longer than average would not have negligible senescence, though Wolverine totally does.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#89441: Sep 21st 2018 at 6:25:14 PM

So hey, with James Gunn out of the picture (still holding out hope he will be rehired a few years down the line) and that cunt Perlmutter incapable of messing with the movie side anymore, what do you guys think of Marvel bringing back Joss Whedon to helm the cosmic side of the MCU post-Avengers 4?

Edited by HailMuffins on Sep 21st 2018 at 10:25:09 AM

XJTordecai Watch the seventh wave Since: Jun, 2013
Watch the seventh wave
#89442: Sep 21st 2018 at 6:28:40 PM

No. Please no. Anything but that. After Ao U, I'm glad that he's gone from the franchise.

On my wave, passing oooooooon
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#89443: Sep 21st 2018 at 6:34:27 PM

I thought it was agreed Ao U faults were mostly thanks to the "Creative" Comitte making the filming process hell?

And Age of Ultron is a good movie. Much better than the first one for the simple reason stuff actually happens in it! .

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#89444: Sep 21st 2018 at 6:36:13 PM

Uh stuff happened in the first movie too.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#89445: Sep 21st 2018 at 6:39:07 PM

Joss Whedon is an egg-sucking dog.

My various fanfics.
Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#89446: Sep 21st 2018 at 6:40:30 PM

One of the biggest complaint about Ao U is that too much stuff happened in it.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#89447: Sep 21st 2018 at 6:45:53 PM

No, they spent 3/4 of a movie dicking around, exchange extremely superficial dialogue in between horribly coreographed action scenes.

You could just taste the damn movie sucking his fingers, waiting for the third act to start...which matters for shit, because at that point we have already established that Loki is about as threatning as a toothless, vegeterian shark!

And let's not even get into the fact that I've seen better chromakey from movies made three to fou decades ago, and I mean that utterly literally!

What the hell was the primary inspiration for this shit, the fucking BROLY MOVIE!?

But, I ask you not to argue the point, 'cause I just don't feel like going full pistola today, and I will go full pistola if I have to talk about this movie at length. I don't like the Avengers, let's all move on to other topics.

XJTordecai Watch the seventh wave Since: Jun, 2013
Watch the seventh wave
#89448: Sep 21st 2018 at 6:48:40 PM

I can agree Avengers has been outdone multiple times over by the MCU, but I can't say too much because I haven't seen either that or Ao U in full in like three years.

On my wave, passing oooooooon
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#89449: Sep 21st 2018 at 6:50:58 PM

Yeah, I don't think I'd want Whedon back. Except possibly if there was an adaptation of something he wrote for comics and that something was good.

On the topic of X-Men, besides my previous comments, I'd also like to see Corsair and the Starjammers (with some kind of Lampshade Hanging of how much they are like the MCU's GOTG) and a less evil/more personable Juggernaut who has a Villainous Friendship with Black Tom Cassidy. I do see that the latter was given a minor role in the most recent Deadpool movie, but I'd ignore that.

Edited by Hodor2 on Sep 21st 2018 at 8:50:55 AM

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#89450: Sep 21st 2018 at 6:52:55 PM

No, don't ignore it, make Deadpool do a bunch of lampshades!


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