Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules
still apply.
- This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
- While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread
. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
- Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.
If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
The movie isn't about him. It's about Scott's personal growth, and the damaged relationship between Hope and Hank Pym.
Like Ronan, Yellowjacket's just the final physical obstacle for them to face, and he serves well in the role. A well-developed villain is always nice, but as long as they're believable in their actions I don't mind them being primarily relegated to the action rather than the more personal story beats.
Plus Corey Stoll can scream like a monster. That's a plus.
Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Sep 7th 2018 at 1:17:23 PM
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!I wouldn't say that makes it completely fine to leave him so flat. Spider-Man Homecoming was able to do a great job of providing an fleshed out arc for both Peter and Toomes. And also the Hank and Hope subplot was terrible because Hank's manpain is a terrible reason for him to ignore Hope's qualifications. If improving Yellowjacket meant cutting that sideplot out, I'd gladly take it.
Comparing Cross to Toomes is unfair. Peter Parker started the film as Spider-Man, and none of his supporting cast really had arcs of their own, so that left plenty of room for Toomes.
Lang has to spend quite a bit of time becoming Ant-Man both conceptually and emotionally while also dealing with the fallout of prison and divorce, and regardless of its quality you can't pretend the Hank/Hope side-arc doesn't exist.
Spider-Man is very much a "heroes vs. villains" story, with both sides developing and questioning things. Ant-Man is more of a "heroes vs. themselves, and to prove you've learned things your final exam is this guy" story. Or as another example, Spider-Man is P1-vs-P2 and Ant-Man is Players-vs-CPU.
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!You can have your character's journey be more about battling himself with a villain tacked on and not have that villain be Cross. Obadiah Stane has been Darren Cross done right since literally the first film in the MCU.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.The way I see it, the original Ant-Man movie is all about fathers. Scott wants to be a good father, and worries that he isn’t. Hank is a very overprotective and deeply flawed father. Hope is stifled and frustrated by her father, and cannot gain his full approval but doesn’t know why. She deals with this by (justifiably) pushing back. Hank takes Scott under his wing as a sort of mentee/son figure.
Cross looks at Hank as a father figure, but his desire to get Hank’s approval is grounded in ego and arrogance. He deals with the complete lack of approval by going nuclear.
So, the final fight of the movie is between the thwarted Cross, who desired but never got Hank’s approval, and the confused Scott, who didn’t particularly care about or want Hank’s approval but got it anyway. And it happens in the room of Scott’s child, whom he would do anything to protect, in contrast to how Hank treated Cross.
Edited by wisewillow on Sep 8th 2018 at 7:46:03 AM
And meanwhile Hope, Hank's actual daughter who parallels Cross in her inability to gain Hank's approval and lack of knowledge for why, is nearby.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 8th 2018 at 6:34:50 AM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Indeed.
Hope's marginalization actively hurts Cross as well, because it denies him a proper thematic rival. Scott, as noted, parallels Hank rather than Cross, being a father who would do anything for his daughter. Cross is Hope's foil, and so putting him against Scott - a person with whom he has no relationship, whether literal or thematic - denies the climax its proper emotional stakes.
Scott's thematic meaning in the story would be better suited to a position in opposition to Hank's bad parenting. The film, however, tries to put him on the same level as Hope and Cross, shoehorning him into the children side of the equation by making him a kinda-sorta pupil-ish figure. This does not lend itself well to his thematic role as the Good Father opposite Bad Father Hank.
It really should have been Hope's story. Making Hope's marginalization a plot point only amplifies that. If they really wanted to address female marginalization in the film while also having that parallel of fatherhood, then Scott should have been her Male Ally. Call out Hank. Be like, "It needs to be Hope in the suit. I know it. She knows it. And I think you know it too." And walk away.
Then the Pyms can have their emotional scene, Hope can put on the suit, and it can be her versus Cross for the third act. Scott can have his confrontation against his thematic rival, Hank, while Hope fights hers, Cross.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Gonna be nice and assume you're new here. I mean, I don't think there's a single objective "best" in the franchise. Most of the better ones just feel like different enough flavors of amazing that I'm not sure how much I can compare them when pitting them against one another. Got G 2, Winter Soldier, Civil War, Homecoming, Thor: Ragnarok, Black Panther, and Infinity War are all just so great in their own ways that you could have any one of those as your favorite and I wouldn't blame you. At least, in my opinion.
On my wave, passing oooooooonWell, looks like there'a contender for new director...
https://comicbook.com/marvel/2018/09/07/guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-3-james-gunn-paul-feig/
So...
Just finished Iron Fist season 2. I'd say it was better than Season 1 (not a difficult feat I know).
I'm wondering if anyone who's not on the main thread who's watched it has anything to say.
One Strip! One Strip!So, something that slipped through our cracks: Far From Home cast Remy Hii in some kind of role
. Given the way Homecoming made a point in portraying as much of Spidey's supporting cast as possible, he could easily be playing a regular character, but the internet mostly hopped to the question of whether he's playing a villain. Hell, I mainly ran into it because the PS 4 game got me jazzed about possibly seeing Mr. Negative in the films

I like that Ben seems to have gotten in-character.