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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#88901: Sep 5th 2018 at 7:21:05 AM

What would the MCU look like prior to Infinity War if any of the super-villains had actually won? Which versions of this Crapsack World would be the worst? Which Crapsack World would be the most fixable?

     

I was thinking about this because Ultron and Stark started with similar ideas - protecting Earth, going about in radically different ways. If Ultron had won, dropped Sokovia, somehow space-tossed Hulk or otherwise killed Banner, gotten rid of Thor and the rest - we'd have Age of Ultron Battleworld.

That got me thinking - what was Killmonger doing while Ultron was running amuck? Presumably on a battlefield somewhere or in a coffee shop detesting Wakanda? How did he respond to evil robots showing up? Was it on his mind when he went to Wakanda? His plan was "fight fire with fire," not, "and maybe deal with evil robot incursions while we're at it."

Then I got to wondering - if Stane had killed Tony and taken over the company, he'd be pushing out new, shittier Iron Man prototypes and the world would be full of government/terrorist-owned Iron Man suits. Ultron would still wreak havoc.

What if HYDRA had taken over SHIELD? Ultron would have immediately thrown a wrench into their plans - but maybe he wouldn't have been conceived. Then they'd just have to keep away from Thanos - except Thanos wouldn't have even come to Earth looking for Vision's Infinity Stone.

So many interesting Elseworlds to come out of all the bad endings of the MCU.

The least consequential would be Ant Man - I mean, Scott's family would probably be dead yes, but that film told its own little story with non-global stakes. Yellowjacket or Wasp would be the lead shrinking superhero. Maybe Yellowjacket would be contacted by Ross and put on Stark's Avengers team.

The worst would have to be The First Avenger with Red Skull winning - hello Man In The High Castle - but then he'd probably have screwed up with the Tesseract and sent himself into cosmic oblivion. Carter and the Howling Commandos would have cleaned up his mess. We wouldn't have Steve but the world would probably be safe until The Winter Soldier at least... Stark, Thor, Banner, Widow, and Barton could more or less handle the invasion with a few more casualties.

EDIT: And of course I'm forgetting Doctor Strange - but I only watched that movie once and forgot what the main villain was even trying to do.

Edited by Soble on Sep 5th 2018 at 3:13:09 AM

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#88902: Sep 5th 2018 at 7:36:35 AM

If Stane won, he'd have probably sold more weapons and possibly ironmonger suits to terrorists. Destabilized political situations, world probably pretty much the same provided nothing in the following movies happens.

If Whiplash won... uh... he goes home happy that he made Tony look like a punk? I don't remember that he had some big followup plan.

If Killian won, the US gets involved in another war against wherever Killian decided Mandarin was based. Extremis continues to be used and tested and people continue to explode. So destabilized political situations, the world is largely the same if more explodey.

If Loki won Thor 1, Thor would be on Earth, drinking coffee and feeling sad that his dad is dead (his dad isn't dead) and Odin has given Loki a hug and tells him that he loves him and he's his favorite son. And/or Loki blows up Jotenheim. The political situation of the nine realms is put in an unrest but people are afraid to make too big a deal with a dude that will fantasy teleport nuke their planet.

If Malekith won Dark World, the world as we know it is gone. The universe is fundamentally changed. Thanos wouldn't have to do shit as plenty of people would be dead. Most people, actually.

If Hela won Ragnarok, uh. Asgard would still be around but she'd have probably killed most of the population. She'd be starting wars across space and probably depopulating other of the nine realms. Might even start on Earth.

If Red Skull won First Avenger, a lot of cities would just not exist anymore. The world would be devastated and the entire political situation of World War II would shake out completely differently. It might be a situation where Red Skull rules over the rubble or it might be a situation where everyone bands together against him and saves some of the rubble.

If Hydra won Winter Soldier, Hydra runs the world. They have giant 'kill anyone that even looks like they're stepping out of line' guns.

If Zemo won Civil War... well he kinda did? But in his ideal version, he'd be dead and I think Tony would be too?

If Loki won Avengers, then he has Earth as his kingdom but he kneels at the feet of Thanos. Thanos gets the Space Stone early and keeps the Mind Stone. If Tony wasn't talking out of his ass, the surviving Avengers rally constant, bitter, and pricey rebellions against Loki. His new kingdom would be a constant struggle to stay on a rocking boat.

If Ultron won Age of Ultron. Rocks fall, everyone dies. Ultron replaces humanity with Vision-esque numanity. Robot people and he's their king. Possibly better able to fight Thanos when he shows up but he already had five of the damn stones. Ultron and Vision and etc are going down anyway.

If Thanos won.... well shit.

If weird face dude and Dormammu had won Dr Strange, Earth is part of the dark dimension. Everything is terrible forever.

If Cross won Ant-Man, there'd be a bunch of tiny laser terrorists. The political situation is really destabilized.

If Ghost won Ant-Man and the Wasp, uh she'd maybe be healed? Maybe not. Janet would probably be dead.

If Ronan won Guardians, Xandar would be gone. He'd then try to fight Thanos and die, like a punk.

If Ego won Guardians 2, a good deal of the universe is now more Ego. I don't think he had every planet but its enough to really upheaval everything.

If Killmonger won Black Panther, he starts several worlds across the world. Wakandan technology and the surprise factor create some chaotic first days but the lack of manpower would eventually lead to the rest of the world rallying together. End result, a lot of people dead. But days for the world and for Wakanda.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#88903: Sep 5th 2018 at 8:53:07 AM

I am now wondering if maybe Thor and company shouldn't have defeated Hela. If Thanos had to go through her to get to the Space Stone, maybe things would've turned out differently.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#88904: Sep 5th 2018 at 9:10:38 AM

The way things shook out they needed to distract her with Surtur for any of the Asgardians to escape alive.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#88905: Sep 5th 2018 at 9:28:51 AM

It’s unclear how much time passed on Asgard compared to on Sakaar, but by the time Surtur was summoned Hela was capable of casting knives larger than her own body. Thanos would’ve been left on a pike.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Sep 5th 2018 at 9:29:03 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#88906: Sep 5th 2018 at 9:31:56 AM

Hela would be just as dead as Thor would be against Thanos,I could see her trying to make a deal with Thanos but he'd end up betraying her or enslaving her

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#88907: Sep 5th 2018 at 9:32:17 AM

Not a teaser, which makes sense since it's a magazine, but first look at Captain Marvel in costume.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#88908: Sep 5th 2018 at 9:35:09 AM

Here's a thing.

Despite being vastly outmatched, Thor was able to fight Hela on even keel for a little while. He was not able to do the same to Thanos.

Thanos is so tough that all of Tony and Strange's best efforts - and they were good best efforts - they manage to draw only the tiniest bit of blood.

Hela would have done better than Thor but not better enough, I don't think. And she wouldn't have been able to play nice with allies.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#88909: Sep 5th 2018 at 9:56:29 AM

A bunch of more images and plot details.

  • The movie is going to open with Carol already having her powers.

  • She's part of an elite Seal Team 6-style Kree military unit called Starforce, alongside Ronan, Korath, Doctor Minerva and others.

  • Ben Mendelsohn is playing Talos, a Skrull warrior. He's also infiltrated SHIELD on Earth.

  • Nick Fury is just a desk jockey at this point.

  • Lashana Lynch is playing Maria Rambeau, who is Carol's best friend and the mother of Monica Rambeau.

  • Ronan is one of Carol's teammates and is viewed as a bit of a nutjob because of his extremist views, but he's still part of Kree society and hasn't yet left to become the full-on terrorist seen in the first Guardians of the Galaxy movie.

Edited by comicwriter on Sep 5th 2018 at 9:56:56 AM

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#88910: Sep 5th 2018 at 10:16:34 AM

Marvel Studios: Hey, Fox, were you guys planning on showing Skrulls in Dark Phoenix?
Fox: Maybe? We're honestly not sure anymore. Why?
Marvel Studios: Because we beat ya to it!!!!
Fox: DAMN IT!!!

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#88911: Sep 5th 2018 at 10:38:16 AM

As someone who did not care for Ronan at all in the first GOTG film, this could be his chance to be Rescued from the Scrappy Heap. Glad to know the Rambeaus are going to be in this film in some fashion.

Not sure I dig the look of the Skrulls. Too generic and similar to the Dark Elves from Thor TDW. Would be a time when the more comic book look would suit them better.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#88912: Sep 5th 2018 at 10:47:05 AM

Purple spandex and shoulder pads

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#88913: Sep 5th 2018 at 11:13:39 AM

I like Ronan so it'll be neat to see him pre-galvanization here.

Also, it's kinda darkly amusing that the only difference between Zemo's in-movie defeat and his hypothetical victory is that he's dead in the latter.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#88914: Sep 5th 2018 at 11:18:02 AM

[up] 4x Marvel: We also bought your company lol

Just Makima.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#88915: Sep 5th 2018 at 11:21:17 AM

Disney leans in "I own BOTH of you!"

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
shatterstar Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
#88916: Sep 5th 2018 at 11:28:04 AM

I feel like the effort to deage SLJ is completely unnecessary other than showing off the deaging VFX.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#88917: Sep 5th 2018 at 12:42:12 PM

[up][up] I thought of mentioning that, but it isn't a done deal until late 2019, so I didn't. But what the heck.

Disney: Settle down, Fox. Sony learned to share the Spider-Man toys (for the most part), now you need to share too.
Fox: We shared the Daredevil and Ego toys!
Disney: And now you need to share the other cosmic toys. After all, we're all going to be together soon, won't we?
Fox: Grrrrrrrr. Fine.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Sep 5th 2018 at 3:42:30 PM

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#88918: Sep 5th 2018 at 12:58:58 PM

What a difference twenty years makes. Nick Fury without the eyepatch. Ronan before his daily blood-bath routine.

I'm liking the idea of seeing Captain Marvel at the peak of her powers. Sort of delivering on the idea promised by Ant-Man, that there were superheroes before Iron Man and the Hulk — we just never heard about them. Also was just thinking — I originally was expecting time travel shenanigans to be involved, but now I'm wondering if they might instead do a riff on Carol losing her powers to Rogue — leaving her in a coma, like in the animated series.

So, I guess this probably means Monica Rambeau will be all grown up by the present day, huh? Interesting...

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#88920: Sep 5th 2018 at 2:02:14 PM

[up] That's way too convoluted to explain.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#88921: Sep 5th 2018 at 2:07:25 PM

Far from home makes me think it's taking place away from home,aka.Earth so might be events during/between infinity war

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#88922: Sep 5th 2018 at 2:17:14 PM

[up] Except Far From Home takes place on Earth. And I was under the impression it'd be about something like after coming to terms with how he died and was brought back to life, Peter vows to live his life as Peter Parker and Spider-Man to the fullest extent possible. (Somewhat incidentally, I thought of a running gag where Peter tries to be chummy with Nick Fury and Maria Hill based solely on how the three of them suffered death by cosmic finger snap. Probably a little morbid though, no?)

Actually, I just thought of something as I was typing this.

Wasn't Far From Home established as taking place AFTER Infinity War?

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Sep 5th 2018 at 5:17:28 AM

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#88923: Sep 5th 2018 at 2:18:44 PM

[up] Kevin Feige said so...that is until Infinity War was released and now he says he doesn't know.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#88924: Sep 5th 2018 at 2:26:07 PM

Avengers 4 spoilers: I read somewhere that the next Avengers takes place after a time skip, where Cassie Lang has had a few years to grow into a teenager. So technically Far From Home might take place after Infinity War, but before Avengers 4, which would presumably get reverted by time travel/parallel dimension chicanery.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#88925: Sep 5th 2018 at 3:52:53 PM

I believe I’ve heard that Far from Home will start almost immediately after Avengers 4, which is unlikely to mean that Peter’s stranded in space, specially if Mysterio is the main villain.

No idea what else it could mean, though.

Oh God! Natural light!

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