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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#88876: Sep 4th 2018 at 11:28:42 AM

[up]That's really the way to do it. Having multiple villains is infinitely easier when they're actually working together, because it avoids pulling the plot in too many directions. That was one of the big problems with the villains in Spider-Man 3; it wasn't just that there were too many villains, but that each one has a completely independent subplot that only converges with the rest during the final battle.

Speaking of which, here's Nick Fury and Maria Hill on the set of Spider-Man: Far from Home.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#88877: Sep 4th 2018 at 11:49:00 AM

Spider-Man 3 wanted each villain wanted each villain to have the same role as he biggest emotional and narrative threat Peter’s ever faced, simultaneously. Naturally, they couldn’t all fill that niche and thus the whole thing fell apart as all three of them failed to really keep the plot afloat.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#88878: Sep 4th 2018 at 12:37:01 PM

Thinking about it, Civil War also does a pretty good job. Besides the obvious joke of Steve, Tony, and/or both as "villains", it uses Crossbones effectively in the beginning as well as Zemo, and more broadly, does a great introduction of Black Panther and uses characters pretty effectively.

One thing I really like is how it basically takes a bunch of different comic storylines and weaves them together in a surprisingly well-done way:

So most obviously, it adapts the Civil War storyline in terms of the Cap/Iron Man face-off, and the triggering event it uses subs in Wanda and Crossbones for Speedball and Nitro. Additionally, Zemo's plan is broadly similar to this "frame Bucky" plan he had in the comics, albeit done for way more justified reasons than in the comics, where it was either For the Evulz or (as per Nick Spencer) out of this twisted Villainous Crush Zemo has toward Steve. Finally, it appends to Zemo's plans T'Chaka's necessary Plot-Triggering Death.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#88879: Sep 4th 2018 at 1:53:22 PM

Okay, this is brilliant...basically the history of Shield in one video, but what is great about it is the style. This could be some sort of official information video.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#88880: Sep 4th 2018 at 4:38:27 PM

Watched Ant-Man and The Wasp yesterday. It's great, better than the first one with better characters and a more consistent style. I disagree with those who said that Scott is still the main character while Hope is just a supporting character, the plot of the film surrounds her finding her mother, she gets the opening flashback scene, and she gets about as much screentime as Scott does. They are very much co-protagonists.

Ghost is also a really cool and compelling villain. The jokes are fantastic, as are the effects. The climax is pure wacky chaos mixed in with poignant emotional beats, and I love every bit of it. Exactly the ending an Ant-Man movie should have, not a standard hero vs villain slugfest.

I feel like I need to watch it a second time to fully appreciate it, I feel like I didn't fully absorb everything great about it the first time through.

XJTordecai Watch the seventh wave Since: Jun, 2013
Watch the seventh wave
#88881: Sep 4th 2018 at 4:44:50 PM

After Infinity War I can't tell you how refreshing it is to see Scott be such a good dad to Cassie. Their interactions were one of my favorite parts of the movie.

On my wave, passing oooooooon
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#88882: Sep 4th 2018 at 4:47:41 PM

If Ghost is in Thunderbolts I hope she inherits some of the quirks of her comic-self like her paranoia & lack of hygiene.

Plus the hatred of corporations & such.

Cause as is she’s kinda boring.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#88883: Sep 4th 2018 at 5:15:14 PM

Ghost gaining some quirkiness to her is probably inevitable. Now that her villainy is over and she's not dead, she's a supporting character in a series full of characters who are either comically wacky or comically assholes.

Much like how Nebula went from Gamora's Evil Counterpart to The Comically Serious in between Guardians movies.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#88884: Sep 4th 2018 at 5:39:58 PM

Not really interested in the lack of hygine part, but as much as I like the MCU Ghost, it does seem a shame to not do the anti-corporate terrorist part (and accompanying Freudian Excuse), because it makes for a nice dark parallel to Scott's Just Like Robin Hood backstory.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#88885: Sep 4th 2018 at 5:50:35 PM

I wouldn't say the problem is that Scott is still the sole protagonist. Rather, I'd say the issue is that - much like the first film - he doesn't actually feel like he belongs in this story. Which is a glaring issue when he was the main character of that one and Deuteragonist of this one.

The one thing connecting him to the plot here is that he was randomly possessed by the Ghost of Narrative Convenience during his time in the Quantum Zone in the previous film, and thus spontaneously turns into Janet to explain how to solve the plot. He once again has zero actual stakes in the events of the film, beyond the fact that he wants to bone Hope.

Scott's entire story is pretty much a subplot about how being involved in the plot might completely destroy his life. But he does it anyway 'cause he wants to bone Hope. Meanwhile, the Pyms give zero f*cks about the fact that they're potentially destroying his life and constantly treat him like a worthless little shit who should be so lucky as to have them ruin his chances of having a future with his daughter.

They don't want him here and he doesn't have any good reason to be here, but the writers arbitrarily glued a Plot Coupon to his face to force him to be here against everyone's wishes. All because it was his name in the first movie and at the top of this one.

The main question the first film raised is, "Why is this asshole even here?" The main question the second raises is, "Why is this asshole still here?" And the answer to both is now, as it was then, Hank's f*ckable daughter.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#88886: Sep 4th 2018 at 5:54:32 PM

In fairness to the Pyms not giving a fuck if they destroy his life, he kinda didn't give a fuck when he destroyed their lives

Not that that fixes that problem. Just commenting that based on this track record, Scott and the Pyms should really stop hanging out before they destroy each other

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#88887: Sep 4th 2018 at 6:16:27 PM

He once again has zero actual stakes in the events of the film, beyond the fact that he wants to bone Hope.

Scott's entire story is pretty much a subplot about how being involved in the plot might completely destroy his life. But he does it anyway 'cause he wants to bone Hope. Meanwhile, the Pyms give zero f*cks about the fact that they're potentially destroying his life and constantly treat him like a worthless little shit who should be so lucky as to have them ruin his chances of having a future with his daughter.

They don't want him here and he doesn't have any good reason to be here, but the writers arbitrarily glued a Plot Coupon to his face to force him to be here against everyone's wishes. All because it was his name in the first movie and at the top of this one.

The main question the first film raised is, "Why is this asshole even here?" The main question the second raises is, "Why is this asshole still here?" And the answer to both is now, as it was then, Hank's f*ckable daughter.

Have you considered that maybe it's because (at least in the case of the second film) he wants to make things up to Hope and Hank for what happened in Civil War? I mean, that seemed pretty damned clear to me. He feels bad about how he messed up, and wants to make up for it...which is kinda how it was in the first film. Hank was kinda using him, but also giving him a chance to be better and become someone his daughter could be proud of, and Scott took it.

Just say he wants to bone Hope while having an admittedly large grain of truth in it, is actually a massive understatement and gross misrepresentation of the kinda guy Scott really is.

One Strip! One Strip!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#88888: Sep 4th 2018 at 6:22:29 PM

Oh, Tobias didn't like Ant Man 2? That's expected, but can we not get into a 10 page long argument about it like last time?

Edited by VeryMelon on Sep 4th 2018 at 9:24:33 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#88889: Sep 4th 2018 at 6:38:29 PM

[up]

...

<Throws away his ten pages worth of ranting in pure frustration>

YOU'RE ALL STRANGLING ME! ME AND MY CREATIVITY!!!

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#88890: Sep 4th 2018 at 6:56:57 PM

Scott's whole arc and reason to be a superhero is that he wants to be a good person and help others. He was involved with the first movie because he was really good at stealing stuff and Hank decided to give him a chance to be a good person and help others. He's involved with the second movie because he wants to make it up to Hank and because he still wants to be a good person and help others.

Scott is a noble thief and wholesome father and hero. Of course he would jump at the chance to help Captain America, Scott's whole character arc is that he desperately wants to be a Captain America-like figure that his daughter can look up to. He's absolutely not an asshole, and the only reason he needs to be here is because people need help and he wants to help.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#88892: Sep 4th 2018 at 7:13:51 PM

Oh, man, that's 9:00 AM where I live! I get to wake up with a Captain Mervel teaser only two days after having watched Ant-Man and The Wasp!

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#88893: Sep 4th 2018 at 7:16:23 PM

The weird cheeky conversational twitter conversations sure are a way to announce things now

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#88895: Sep 4th 2018 at 7:18:59 PM

I'll take tweets over teaser teasers. Teasers for teasers are just mean.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#88896: Sep 4th 2018 at 7:30:25 PM

Well I hate those too. I try to avoid any teasers or set photos or anything like that and just watch the actual trailers. If everybody else likes them then whatever, but a lot of times it seems like they don't.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#88897: Sep 4th 2018 at 10:55:52 PM

[up][up][up][up]It's what we young folk like. Or so I'm told.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#88898: Sep 4th 2018 at 11:53:31 PM

You know, that Scott's heroics are more or less never really about him aside from him wanting to make the world a better place for Cassie is one aspect I really like about the franchise. It's a nice change from Superheroes having a personal relationship to the villains.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#88899: Sep 5th 2018 at 12:01:58 AM

Its more this guy who made a mistake & is trying to do right is dragged into the family drama of a bunch of assholes.

Cause yeah its funny that the Pym family barring Janet are a bunch of really terrible people.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013

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